President Makes Secret Trip To Iraq

Ahh... The Chit-Chat forum. Please have all chatting here.

Moderator: The Lounge Moderators

User avatar
Doh!-Nut
Loyal
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:06 am
Contact:

Re: President Makes Secret Trip To Iraq

Post by Doh!-Nut » Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:19 am

There's more then Democrats and Republicans. Get a new mantra, and in the meantime remember to use No More Tears? brand baby shampoo every evening.

User avatar
Brad
Veteran
Posts: 1226
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 1:46 am
Contact:

Re: President Makes Secret Trip To Iraq

Post by Brad » Thu Dec 04, 2003 1:59 am

And how many died under Saddam?



The standard line seems to be: "Saddam was bad...BUT..."





Well, I don't see how killing thousands and thousands of innocents in the space of under a year is possibly making things better. What does it solve? Is terrorism being stamped out? Bullshit. You can't 'stamp out' terrorism. You can't even fight terrorism. Terrorism breeds from hopelesness. We've back them into a corner. And this is how they fight back. Really, we are as much to blame for terrorism as they are. We've shit on the rest of the world so much it's not a huge surprise when it comes back to bite us in the ass.

Oh, wait, did we 'liberate' anyone with these wars? Look at Afghanistan. It's deteriorating rapidly. Iraq is getting worse by day. I'm glad Canada is starting to distance itself from the actions of the US government. For the safety of myself and my fellow citizens, I'm glad.

American's rights are disappearing. Look at the Patriot acts. I fear for your people. The majority of the rest of the world now despises your country. Does that not bother you?



If Bush was really sincere about helping people, he wouldn't of bothered with a country that had a stable government (granted, a tyrannical one) and he would try helping nations worst afflicted with the AIDS epidemic. Or ending hostilities in any number of war-torn African countries.



But no, this is all about money. Multi-billion dollar Haliburton oil deals are a lot more enticing than helping people just for the sake of helping them. At least, that's what it seems like these days.
Democracy. It rolls off the tongue nicely. Better than others. I can say it, spell it, define it, but can?t admit to ever believing it. So convoluted has it become that it has mesmerized generations into a comma of perfect sublimity. You dance to the music of your youth, identify with your own memory, become a time capsule of numb comfort. And there, mired in the exhaustion of a life in progress, you surrender your right to question for the luxury of not being bothered.



- Matt Good

User avatar
Doh!-Nut
Loyal
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:06 am
Contact:

Re: President Makes Secret Trip To Iraq

Post by Doh!-Nut » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:43 am

If Bush was really sincere about helping people, he wouldn't of bothered with a country that had a stable government (granted, a tyrannical one) and he would try helping nations worst afflicted with the AIDS epidemic. Or ending hostilities in any number of war-torn African countries.




Wait wait, we're not supposed to get involved with some wrongs, yet suddenly its the USA's responsiblity to help Africa?



"We hate your policies but we want your money anyway."



If you're tired of the US jutting around the place, stop the spin about asking for help. You can't have your cake and eat it too.



Well, I don't see how killing thousands and thousands of innocents in the space of under a year is possibly making things better. What does it solve? Is terrorism being stamped out? Bullshit.




Wait wait, you honestly believe its not better then it was before in Iraq? So your plan is do absolutely nothing?



This reminds me of the denial before WWII broke out about how badly the Jews were being attacked.



People are dying from the terrorists. Turkey, Israel, Indonesia, the US, have all been directly attacked by them.



Look at the Patriot acts. I fear for your people. The majority of the rest of the world now despises your country. Does that not bother you?





Its only a matter of time before Canada's liberal immigration policies come back to bite it in the ass.



See above about the double standard of "check please, then get lost" standard about it bugging me. Then again, I doubt that logic you have examined.



But no, this is all about money. Multi-billion dollar Haliburton oil deals are a lot more enticing than helping people just for the sake of helping them. At least, that's what it seems like these days.





Then again, I'm still waiting for any other nation to step up to the
Tibet
issue. Get off the high horse.
There's more then Democrats and Republicans. Get a new mantra, and in the meantime remember to use No More Tears? brand baby shampoo every evening.

User avatar
Brad
Veteran
Posts: 1226
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 1:46 am
Contact:

Re: President Makes Secret Trip To Iraq

Post by Brad » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:40 am

Wait wait, we're not supposed to get involved with some wrongs, yet suddenly its the USA's responsiblity to help Africa?



"We hate your policies but we want your money anyway."



If you're tired of the US jutting around the place, stop the spin about asking for help. You can't have your cake and eat it too.






Yes, it's the US's responsibility to help Africa. It's every rich nation's responsibility to do so. Canada, Britain, US, etc. This isn't about fucking politics. It's a about basic human decency. I want international aid and research into AIDS, particularly. Thousands die per day from this disease.

And while I'm at it, we really should consider fighting starvation instead of 'terror'. Last time I checked, every day 24000 die from hunger alone. Every stealth bomber and cruise missile built is a crime against humanity. It's billions of wasted money. What do you think would happen if the US suddenly gave up on pre-emptive attacks and wars and the such, devoted all the money from defense into humanitarion aid, health care, environmental concerns, etc. What do you think would happen if the US stopped trying to push it's version of 'freedom' across the globe? What do you think would happen if the CIA got its nose out of everyone's business. What then?



In my belief, we are citizens of the world first, and citizens of our country second.



Wait wait, you honestly believe its not better then it was before in Iraq?






Why don't you check with the Iraqi's? Most of them would say it's no better, if not worse. The majority of the interviews or polls I've seen show that much, anyway.



So your plan is do absolutely nothing?






My plan is to end terrorism at its source. First step, America must stop commiting acts of terrorism itself.



This reminds me of the denial before WWII broke out about how badly the Jews were being attacked.






Actually, it does remind me of WWII. The patriotic frenzy, the racial profiling, the pre-emptive strikes... all accomplished by Nazi Germany. What other government could we compare that to in modern-day times?



Then again, I'm still waiting for any other nation to step up to the issue. Get off the high horse.






What issue was that again? Terrorism? I'd say most other countries are doing a better job of avoiding terrorism than the US at the moment.

Or did you mean Saddam's tyrannical regime? Well, I think Gandhi showed us just how effective non-violent revolution is. Or, more recently, Georgia's change in government was considerably smooth and bloodless. A bit better than someone else rushing in, bombing the shit out of everything, then trying to install a government modelled after your own.
Democracy. It rolls off the tongue nicely. Better than others. I can say it, spell it, define it, but can?t admit to ever believing it. So convoluted has it become that it has mesmerized generations into a comma of perfect sublimity. You dance to the music of your youth, identify with your own memory, become a time capsule of numb comfort. And there, mired in the exhaustion of a life in progress, you surrender your right to question for the luxury of not being bothered.



- Matt Good

User avatar
Cuttooth
Loyal
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu May 01, 2003 9:46 pm
Contact:

Re: President Makes Secret Trip To Iraq

Post by Cuttooth » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:27 am

Originally posted by Doh!-Nut@Dec 3 2003, 11:43 PM

[b]



[b]Well, I don't see how killing thousands and thousands of innocents in the space of under a year is possibly making things better. What does it solve? Is terrorism being stamped out? Bullshit.




Wait wait, you honestly believe its not better then it was before in Iraq? So your plan is do absolutely nothing?[/b]




This reminds me of the denial before WWII broke out about how badly the Jews were being attacked.



People are dying from the terrorists. Turkey, Israel, Indonesia, the US, have all been directly attacked by them. [/b]






I agree with you, Iraq is MUCH better off now than they were before. I mean, they don't have to deal with having electricity or water any more, plus their families have been torn up, oh, and their friends are dying! What a great new country.

Sure, people die from terrorism. However, Turkey MASSACRED its people before any terrorism struck there. Indonesia funds terrorism and gives it a nice little home. Israel was given the land by the UN, so the Palestinians and other Muslims had to forfeit their Holy Land for something they were uninvolved with. The US became friends with Israel in the 1970's during threats of the spread of terrorism. That is why the US funded Osama Bin Laden and Friends, to kill some Soviets. The US then sold weapons to Israel illegally, while Israel massacred the Palestinians. So, at this time the Muslim nations hated the Western World because of Israel, and most hated of the Western World was the US who supported Israel. The US doesn't support Israel in kindness. Israel was the US' presence in the Middle East. Israel was the US' only friend in the Middle East! Israel is close to oil, plus the US will get the Jewish support in America that it needs. (Be certain, this isn't an attack on Jews. I have many Jewish friends. This is a realistic observation) They just USE each other. It's ridiculous. In the 1980s, Reagen is selling illegal arms to Iran, too! All of this, Israel and Iran stirs up the Middle East Muslim Countries because it seems like an attack on them. In 1991, the United States goes into the Persian Gulf to save Kuwait. Not in kindness, but because Kuwait provides oil to the United States and didn't want Saddam to have control of it. Thousands of Iraqis die, families are torn apart. The American media slanders Iraq and Saddam Hussein, making Saddam look like Hitler #2.

Wouldn't you be pissed off, too? So, the fundamentalist groups who were FUNDED AND SUPPORTED BY THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA feel as though their people and their religion has been attacked. Thus, the terrorist attacks on America as their retaliation. However, it is important to keep in mind the Iraq, the government and the people, had nothing to do with these attacks. The fundamentalist groups in Afghanistan and Pakistan attacked because they have seen their people attacked.



Now, that is a realistic observation.




The world is Godless and thus meaningless.

But, I like shopping!

User avatar
four
Veteran
Posts: 4623
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2002 3:36 am
Contact:

Re: President Makes Secret Trip To Iraq

Post by four » Thu Dec 04, 2003 6:33 pm

Originally posted by Doh!-Nut+Dec 3 2003, 11:19 PM--<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'<tr<tdQUOTE (Doh!-Nut @ Dec 3 2003, 11:19 PM)</td</tr<tr<td id='QUOTE'
Throughout this thread I get really angry and worked up,? read Cuttooth's posts and am okay again because he spoke the truth... I would just like to thank you for that Cuttooth.





Anytime someone disagrees with someone they somehow take it as a personal insult, and that's the problem. But since Cuttooth agress with you it's truth.



Don't worry I forgive you... :bag:[/b]


I was not taking it as a personal insult, just an aggrevation.



<!--QuoteBegin-Doh!-Nut@Dec 4 2003, 01:43 AM

[b]If Bush was really sincere about helping people, he wouldn't of bothered with a country that had a stable government (granted, a tyrannical one) and he would try helping nations worst afflicted with the AIDS epidemic. Or ending hostilities in any number of war-torn African countries.




Wait wait, we're not supposed to get involved with some wrongs, yet suddenly its the USA's responsiblity to help Africa?



"We hate your policies but we want your money anyway."



If you're tired of the US jutting around the place, stop the spin about asking for help. You can't have your cake and eat it too.[/b][/quote]

I happen to agree with you on this point. The UN and the rest of the world can not just dictate where the US should go and yell at us everytime we do something they do not like.



Originally posted by Doh!-Nut@Dec 4 2003, 01:43AM

Its only a matter of time before Canada's liberal immigration policies come back to bite it in the ass.


I would just like to point out that all of the terrorists that were on the planes on September 11th entered through the US first.
NAAM

User avatar
Doh!-Nut
Loyal
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:06 am
Contact:

Re: President Makes Secret Trip To Iraq

Post by Doh!-Nut » Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:24 pm

OK, I'm just going to pretend I didn't here the US being compared to Nazi Germany. No really, it was just a bad dream.



And i'm going to pretend for the sake of argument that not having Saddam is better then having him around. And I'm going to pretend that he is indeed "Hitler #2" at least for Iraq.



Not in kindness, but because Kuwait provides oil to the United States and didn't want Saddam to have control of it. Thousands of Iraqis die, families are torn apart. The American media slanders Iraq and Saddam Hussein, making Saddam look like Hitler #2.

Wouldn't you be pissed off, too?




Wait wait, that's like asking if I care if Hitler is pissed that I called him a murderer?



I happen to agree with you on this point. The UN and the rest of the world can not just dictate where the US should go and yell at us everytime we do something they do not like.





Indeed. Which is why it's just hilarious hearing people scream about a moral duty then not giving a shit when Kurds are dying in Iraq and anti-semitism is at 60% in Europe.



I would just like to point out that all of the terrorists that were on the planes on September 11th entered through the US first.




Which is why the head of the Department of Immigration and Naturalization needs to be SO FIRED.



It's every rich nation's responsibility to do so. Canada, Britain, US, etc. This isn't about fucking politics. It's a about basic human decency. I want international aid and research into AIDS, particularly. Thousands die per day from this disease.




That my friend is exactly why you can't have your cake and eat it too. You want money, you're also going to get influence from that country.



feel as though their people and their religion has been attacked.




They also want to drive the Jews "into the sea" but it's all good right? And they obvious aren't very adept at their own religion of Islam if they violated one of the rules of Jihad: destroy no buildings.



Their is no guise more sinister than one of virtue.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
There's more then Democrats and Republicans. Get a new mantra, and in the meantime remember to use No More Tears? brand baby shampoo every evening.

User avatar
Brad
Veteran
Posts: 1226
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 1:46 am
Contact:

Re: President Makes Secret Trip To Iraq

Post by Brad » Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:45 pm

That my friend is exactly why you can't have your cake and eat it too. You want money, you're also going to get influence from that country.




But you don't have to overthrow a government and install a puppet one in its place just to fight the AIDS epidemic. Sure, we would initiate some changes in the government of the country receiving aid, but it wouldn't too drastic. It would most likely be concerned with health care and other such social institutions.
Democracy. It rolls off the tongue nicely. Better than others. I can say it, spell it, define it, but can?t admit to ever believing it. So convoluted has it become that it has mesmerized generations into a comma of perfect sublimity. You dance to the music of your youth, identify with your own memory, become a time capsule of numb comfort. And there, mired in the exhaustion of a life in progress, you surrender your right to question for the luxury of not being bothered.



- Matt Good

User avatar
Doh!-Nut
Loyal
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:06 am
Contact:

Re: President Makes Secret Trip To Iraq

Post by Doh!-Nut » Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:48 pm

But it's more fun that way!
There's more then Democrats and Republicans. Get a new mantra, and in the meantime remember to use No More Tears? brand baby shampoo every evening.

User avatar
Brad
Veteran
Posts: 1226
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 1:46 am
Contact:

Re: President Makes Secret Trip To Iraq

Post by Brad » Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:49 pm

True, but it pisses off the locals.
Democracy. It rolls off the tongue nicely. Better than others. I can say it, spell it, define it, but can?t admit to ever believing it. So convoluted has it become that it has mesmerized generations into a comma of perfect sublimity. You dance to the music of your youth, identify with your own memory, become a time capsule of numb comfort. And there, mired in the exhaustion of a life in progress, you surrender your right to question for the luxury of not being bothered.



- Matt Good

User avatar
Doh!-Nut
Loyal
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:06 am
Contact:

Re: President Makes Secret Trip To Iraq

Post by Doh!-Nut » Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:50 pm

But the locals hate us anyway so lets party.
There's more then Democrats and Republicans. Get a new mantra, and in the meantime remember to use No More Tears? brand baby shampoo every evening.

User avatar
Brad
Veteran
Posts: 1226
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 1:46 am
Contact:

Re: President Makes Secret Trip To Iraq

Post by Brad » Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:59 pm

I guess there is some twisted and obscure logic in that...
Democracy. It rolls off the tongue nicely. Better than others. I can say it, spell it, define it, but can?t admit to ever believing it. So convoluted has it become that it has mesmerized generations into a comma of perfect sublimity. You dance to the music of your youth, identify with your own memory, become a time capsule of numb comfort. And there, mired in the exhaustion of a life in progress, you surrender your right to question for the luxury of not being bothered.



- Matt Good

User avatar
Doh!-Nut
Loyal
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:06 am
Contact:

Re: President Makes Secret Trip To Iraq

Post by Doh!-Nut » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:10 pm

:D
There's more then Democrats and Republicans. Get a new mantra, and in the meantime remember to use No More Tears? brand baby shampoo every evening.

Post Reply