Pedge Of Alligiance In School

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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by four »

Our founding fathers were not atheists, they just understood that church and state should be seperated. Most of them were heavily religious, and we have never once had an atheist president. And it was added during the 50's after WWII, during the red scare.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by yoaliens3000 »

the words under god are a remblance of our past. they were brought to us during the cold war to make us seems noticably different from the soviet union. the guy who started this all is a really big baby. its so annoying, all these motives toward political correctness these days. people like this need to be thrown in a hole and never let out.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by ToraToraTora »

Originally posted by four@Mar 25 2004, 09:08 PM

Our founding fathers were not atheists, they just understood that church and state should be seperated. Most of them were heavily religious, and we have never once had an atheist president. And it was added during the 50's after WWII, during the red scare.




exactly. Everyone in those days was intensely religious.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by four »

Originally posted by yoaliens3000@Mar 26 2004, 03:51 PM

the words under god are a remblance of our past. they were brought to us during the cold war to make us seems noticably different from the soviet union. the guy who started this all is a really big baby. its so annoying, all these motives toward political correctness these days. people like this need to be thrown in a hole and never let out.
Well I am fucking sorry that some people do not like to ignore the fucking constitution when it seems happy to them.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
That is a little thing called the first ammendment, and when they added "under god" to the pledge of allegiance, congress was making a law in respect of religion, therefor violating the first ammendment. It is blatently unconstitutional, regardless of whether you want kids to say it or not.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by o1lucky132005 »

I totally agree with most everyone on here. Students shouldn't be forced to say the pledge of allegience. For the longest time i just accepted that there was a God because that's what i had been taught ever since kindergarten when we had to say the pledge every day. I finally thought for myself and developed my own ideas this year, yeah that's right, it took me 17 years to get rid of all the crap that's been force-fed to me. I live in a rural area, so most people around here are extremely conservative and are big on church and God and everything. You don't find many teenagers around here that will admit that they don't believe in God cuz some people can be really cruel to people with views different than their own. I hope that one day our country will stop brainwashing our children and let them decide for themselves what their beliefs are when they're old enough to understand the importance of it all. I'm glad i found this forum because i don't really get to express these things in my gov't class cuz most of the people in there are extremely conservative (as well as the teacher) and the few of us that are liberals can barely get a word out before we're accused of trying to take away their right to religion and crap, it's ridiculus. Anyways, i'm getting carried away, sorry, i'll shut up!
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by yoaliens3000 »

Originally posted by Drake Dracoli@Mar 26 2004, 11:07 PM

the words under god are a remblance of our past.




Women and minorities being denied the right to vote and express their opinions was also a resemblance of our past. The terms n***er and k*ke are also words that resemble our past. I regret to inform you that the majority of our past is nothing to be proud about.



they were brought to us during the cold war to make us seems noticably different from the soviet union.




1) The Cold War is over.

2) It's not like our own population didn't know that we were different than the Soviet Union. Our own population was the only group this even affected.



the guy who started this all is a really big baby.




Yeah, damn those bastards who wrote the contitution.



its so annoying, all these motives toward political correctness these days.




It isn't a step towards political correctness. It is a 'return to normailty', as it were. Many people feel as though it is throwing it in their face. We were fine without it, and it wouldn't be to big of a deal getting rid of it now. It is thrusting the belief in god in someone's face. Sure, you may believe that it's no big deal, but you would probably be appauled if it was some other religion or doctrine that was spreading that message. Many people in the United States would see a problem if it was 'One Nation Under Allah!', or if some satanic altar were present in courthouses instead of the Ten Commandments. Americans will say that Islamic nations are fundamentalist partially because of reasons such as this. We are being no different, as far as combining religion with the state is conscerned.



people like this need to be thrown in a hole and never let out.




Solitary confinement for people who disagree with you. A freedom fighter indeed. Implying that you fight freedom, of course.




woah. my post was sure broken up, chewed up and spit right back out. i see no point to explain myself to someone like you. and no, its definitly a step toward political correctness. theres no way you can argue that.



people who are doing this are ruining this country. this country will be no more when we forget our past. history repeats inself my friend.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by andi »

well i graduated last year (and i live in Va) and we didnt have to say the pledge, we did have to be respectful though and stand and be silent, and honestly i dont think that's too much to ask of people; to just be respectful....we also had/have this thing called "the moment of silence" which is a minute in the beginning of the day where everyone is quiet, and can pray if they want, can reflect on the day, whatever as long as your quiet...i always used it as my "moment of sleep" :) people things like this arent a big deal, if you dont want to participate just be respectful of those who do...simple as that.



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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by yoaliens3000 »

once agian, u took something i said, argued with it and refered to something that wasnt even in the statement. exactly why theres no point to argue with people like you.



anyways.



this type of stuff is ruining the country. people get bashed for teaching kids right from wrong in public schools. it gets labeled as CATHOLIC teaching. its pathetic.



and 50 years is pretty long for this country, america hasnt been around that long. our country is only a baby compared to other countries.


Yes, there is a way to argue this. As I have just done. It has nothing to do with 'political correctness'. It's simply adhering to the United States' Constitution.




yea... that would be political correctness. thats pretty must proving my point. :wacko:



all this bc some guy didnt want his daughter to say 'under god.' jeeze.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by Doug »

ugh, all this quote dissection you guys are doing! lol



This isn't all just because of one guy. It was going to come up sooner or later. I'm a christian, and I identify myself as a catholic. I believe that it should be taken out because, whether you agree with it or not, it IS against the constitution. It IS against seperation of church and state. How can it not be? This is disrespectful to those who don't believe in a God. This is about equal rights and not discriminating against a minority just because they are a minority. The pledge itself wasn't even a part of our nation until 1897! Under God wasn't a part of our constitution until 1954. Our nation has been conservative for so long. Unable to change, UNWILLING to change. Remember all the people against giving blacks equal rights? Remember those against giving women equal rights? What about atheists? Don't they deserve to AT LEAST be respected? Forcing their children to listen to the saying that our nation is under this "God"; it's just like a school prayer, which is unconstitutional, if you remember correctly.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by four »

For all of you that think it being in the pledge is just a harmless thing and there is no reason to remove it, besides "political correctness", look to o1lucky132005's post. That is how it is not harmless, how it is not just political correctness. It is brainwashing, the whole thing is.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by Adnama »

I hope the government plans on returning all those tax payer dollers payed in bills marked "in God we trust." Pfft.



I think the entire thing is a bit silly really. Should the pledge be said in schools? Yes, why not? Should kids be forced to stand or say the pledge? No. They should be at least encouraged to stand respectfully during the pledge, but not forced to stand or say it.



They passed legislature [or.. bill... law... i dont study this stuff yet so I don't know] at the bigining of the school year here in Texas that says that they have to say the U.S. Pledge, the Texas pledge [which is a bit silly.... "honor the texas flag, I pledge alligence to thee, texas, one and indivisable"] and have a moment of silence over the intercome every morning. No one is forced to say any of it, but they want us to stand up at least.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by Paris In Flames »

Originally posted by four@Mar 28 2004, 01:57 PM

For all of you that think it being in the pledge is just a harmless thing and there is no reason to remove it, besides "political correctness", look to o1lucky132005's post. That is how it is not harmless, how it is not just political correctness. It is brainwashing, the whole thing is.


Wow...we agree on something? ::gasp:: :)



Yes...it IS brainwashing...



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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by yoaliens3000 »

Originally posted by four@Mar 28 2004, 03:57 PM

For all of you that think it being in the pledge is just a harmless thing and there is no reason to remove it, besides "political correctness", look to o1lucky132005's post. That is how it is not harmless, how it is not just political correctness. It is brainwashing, the whole thing is.


brain washing? are you freakin crazy.



the words "under god" dont really mean much.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by four »

Did you even read o1lucky32005's post? That is a clear sign that it does mean a fucking lot. And I do think that "in God we trust" should be taken off the dollar, not that dollars should be recalled, but just that new ones should not have it printed on them.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by Amn_du_mort »

i dont know if anyone commented on this or not, cause i didnt read the whole thing... but four...



"One Nation" wasnt added to pledge... just "Under God"... the original pledge, up until 1954 went "I Pledge allegience, to the flag, of the United States of America. One Nation, Indevisible, with Liberty and Justice for All." all they added in 1954 was "Under God"...



listen to the news a bit more closely.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by opalgoddess »

ok, sorry, but i think this whole thing is pathetic. I agree with what everyone is saying that you shouldn't have to say the pledge of allegience if you don't want to. But honestly, all this is about are 2 little words. Why did this get taken all the way up to the supreme court? Is this really one of the most important things in our nation? No. I mean, if everybody tried to exercise there freedom of religion, our country would be in chaos. I'm LDS, and our church doesn't believe in drinking coffee. So should i go to court and try to shut down all the coffee houses because it's against my religion? Athiests don't even have a religion. They don't believe in any of it. This is all bullshit. If you don't want to say it fine. But don't take it away from the people who do.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by ToraToraTora »

Originally posted by opalgoddess@Mar 28 2004, 11:59 PM

ok, sorry, but i think this whole thing is pathetic. I agree with what everyone is saying that you shouldn't have to say the pledge of allegience if you don't want to. But honestly, all this is about are 2 little words. Why did this get taken all the way up to the supreme court? Is this really one of the most important things in our nation? No. I mean, if everybody tried to exercise there freedom of religion, our country would be in chaos. I'm LDS, and our church doesn't believe in drinking coffee. So should i go to court and try to shut down all the coffee houses because it's against my religion? Athiests don't even have a religion. They don't believe in any of it. This is all bullshit. If you don't want to say it fine. But don't take it away from the people who do.


Well, just because they do not have a religion, does not mean that they have any less right to freedom of religion. It is their belief system, after all.



Your argument about the coffee houses is interesting. You are not pressured to go out and drink coffee in the morning, but you apparently are pressured into doing the pledge in the morning.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by Amn_du_mort »

this isnt about removing the entire pledge, its about taking out the part of God... because as it states in the constitution, God will not be a part of Government... and the pledge is part of Government.
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Re: Pedge Of Alligiance In School

Post by four »

Amn_du_mort: Alright, thank you for correcting me, but the whole point remains the same.



Drake:
I can agree with you that that guy just seemed to want to start crap.
Well of course, but that is how our court system has worked for countless years. People and orginizations find someone so they can bring a suit against the government so that a case which would not normally go before the supreme court (though for it being iffy constitutionaly, it should), can go before the court. Going back all the way to the Dred Scott case (Dred Scott v. Sanford 1857) people have brought cases before the Supreme Court more out of a desire to see a law overturned than an inability to serve the penelty of it.



opalgoddess: How would this being deemed unconstitutional be taking religion away from people? It is simply saying that religion cannot be led by the school, something the court has already ruled. It in no way restricts a person's right to religion, it only carries out the seperation of church and state that the 1st ammednment guarantees.

Also, your comparison to coffee shops is terrible. It would be much better for instince if schools, or some other government orginization, went around to every person in the building offering them coffee and giving them a stern look if they do not accept it. The constitution protects you from the government, not private industries.
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