Baghdad Burning

[Tree Fingers]

[broken4ubyu]

most historians trace the east-west conflict back to the battle of troy

[four]

But it sure as hell has grown since imperialism grew and we were most definitely involved in that.

[broken4ubyu]

As was prettymuch every other country

[four]

And there is strong feelings against them as well, and there are terroist bombings against them as well.

[broken4ubyu]

The US has simply become the worlds periah. Everything gets blamed on us, regardless of who was really responcible.

[Tree Fingers]

Originally posted by broken4ubyu@May 17 2004, 08:24 PM

most historians trace the east-west conflict back to the battle of troy

The Battle of Troy was a fictional story: The Illiad.

[broken4ubyu]

Actually, the battle really happened. Archaeologists have dug up troy.

[Tree Fingers]

[broken4ubyu]

"On the basis of my years of experience and knowledge of Troy, I feel the question ought to be: "Why should the scholars who won't rule out a possible degree of historicity in the basic events in the Iliad have to defend their position?" In light of the remarkable amount of discovery that has taken place over the last ten to fifteen years, the onus to defend positions should now be on those who believe there is absolutely no historical association between what happened at Late Bronze Age Troy and the events in the Iliad. On what basis, for instance, are claims made that Troy in the thirteenth and twelfth centuries B.C. was a third-class city, unworthy of foreign invasion and ultimately of Homer's attention? We expect that doubters will finally take note of the new archaeological facts of the case and the findings of a really interdisciplinary approach to Troy research.



According to the archaeological and historical findings of the past decade especially, it is now more likely than not that there were several armed conflicts in and around Troy at the end of the Late Bronze Age. At present we do not know whether all or some of these conflicts were distilled in later memory into the "Trojan War" or whether among them there was an especially memorable, single "Trojan War." However, everything currently suggests that Homer should be taken seriously, that his story of a military conflict between Greeks and the inhabitants of Troy is based on a memory of historical events--whatever these may have been. If someone came up to me at the excavation one day and expressed his or her belief that the Trojan War did indeed happen here, my response as an archaeologist working at Troy would be: Why not?"



-Manfred Korfmann (Director of excavations at Troy)

[Tree Fingers]

Originally posted by broken4ubyu@May 18 2004, 08:49 PM

"On the basis of my years of experience and knowledge of Troy, I feel the question ought to be: "Why should the scholars who won't rule out a possible degree of historicity in the basic events in the Iliad have to defend their position?" In light of the remarkable amount of discovery that has taken place over the last ten to fifteen years, the onus to defend positions should now be on those who believe there is absolutely no historical association between what happened at Late Bronze Age Troy and the events in the Iliad. On what basis, for instance, are claims made that Troy in the thirteenth and twelfth centuries B.C. was a third-class city, unworthy of foreign invasion and ultimately of Homer's attention? We expect that doubters will finally take note of the new archaeological facts of the case and the findings of a really interdisciplinary approach to Troy research.



According to the archaeological and historical findings of the past decade especially, it is now more likely than not that there were several armed conflicts in and around Troy at the end of the Late Bronze Age. At present we do not know whether all or some of these conflicts were distilled in later memory into the "Trojan War" or whether among them there was an especially memorable, single "Trojan War." However, everything currently suggests that Homer should be taken seriously, that his story of a military conflict between Greeks and the inhabitants of Troy is based on a memory of historical events--whatever these may have been. If someone came up to me at the excavation one day and expressed his or her belief that the Trojan War did indeed happen here, my response as an archaeologist working at Troy would be: Why not?"



-Manfred Korfmann (Director of excavations at Troy)

All right, whatever. Haha. Anyway, we can agree that western and eastern tension has existed for centuries.

[broken4ubyu]

Yes, and that it was in no way caused by the US.

[Brad]

What a sad attempt at passing the blame. You aren't offering solid evidence, remember. Just a theory about a possible battle at an ancient city that may or may not have happened. And could all this anti-US sentiment be traced all the way back to that obscure historical event? Doubtful. Can it be traced instead to the foreign policies and actions of the US in a post-WWII world? Definitely.

[broken4ubyu]

Van it be traced to events causing anti-western sentiment long before the US even existed? Yes. My post seems to have gone way over your head brad.

[Tree Fingers]

Originally posted by broken4ubyu@May 19 2004, 08:49 PM

Yes, and that it was in no way caused by the US.

Recent conflicts are our partially our fault, but I mean, they aren't like our fault. If you see what I am saying. It isn't like we have been evil, we just accidentally fucked shit up and now we don't konw what to do.

[Brad]

[broken4ubyu]

Im not trying to absolve us of ALL guilt, but in the scheme of things, we have done very little to increase anti-westernism

[FallonCeceAda]

Sry, I'm going a bit further back into the post, because it kinda of got me mad....

No, not oil. It was to remove saddam.

Saddam has been in power for years before this, and I'm not saying that Saddam shouldn't have been removed, t's just we were already heading to depression, we should have waited at least until the War on Terriosm was over.



And the thing about vitenam, that is just another example of America interfering. That was not threating the USA, but we decided to be "heros" and we didn't help at all, it would have saved more lives to keep out.

[Brad]

Originally posted by broken4ubyu@May 21 2004, 06:28 AM

Im not trying to absolve us of ALL guilt, but in the scheme of things, we have done very little to increase anti-westernism

So where did this anti-American sentiment come from? People in the middle east just up and decided one day to start hating the US?



Of course it has nothing to do with the military presence in the region, or the alliance with Saudi Arabia, or the support of Israel (selling them implements of warfare), or the long sordid history of interfering with many nations in the area.

[spatulaoflove]