Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
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- A! Elbereth
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
I was reading earlier posts about separation of church and state and that those who are religious need a different reason than 'it's wrong' or 'only for a man and woman'. But this isn't a court house and there are no restrictions to reasons why we support or don't support it. If a legal poll were to be made for the people of the United States it wouldn't matter what the your reasoning was, because we have the freedom of belief.
But because I feel so strongly for my faith, I don't feel the need to look for another reason.
However, if the supreme court is to argue this, the church will be left out and the professionals would use other findings and arguments to convince a judge (although it pisses me off that some high and mighty judge thinks he knows what's best for America). It takes years to make a decision like this as well.
And as to the psychologists, I believe they overexaggerate and lie to patients in order to make money. They are doctors, and doctors are wrong a good percent of the time because they have to stick to strict, impersonal reasoning. Because of this I don't trust their studies. Even if they were true it would only discount my second-hand reason.
But because I feel so strongly for my faith, I don't feel the need to look for another reason.
However, if the supreme court is to argue this, the church will be left out and the professionals would use other findings and arguments to convince a judge (although it pisses me off that some high and mighty judge thinks he knows what's best for America). It takes years to make a decision like this as well.
And as to the psychologists, I believe they overexaggerate and lie to patients in order to make money. They are doctors, and doctors are wrong a good percent of the time because they have to stick to strict, impersonal reasoning. Because of this I don't trust their studies. Even if they were true it would only discount my second-hand reason.
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
Originally posted by A! Elbereth+Aug 1 2004, 05:20 AM--<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'<tr<tdQUOTE (A! Elbereth @ Aug 1 2004, 05:20 AM)</td</tr<tr<td id='QUOTE'I was reading earlier posts about separation of church and state and that those who are religious need a different reason than 'it's wrong' or 'only for a man and woman'. But this isn't a court house and there are no restrictions to reasons why we support or don't support it. If a legal poll were to be made for the people of the United States it wouldn't matter what the your reasoning was, because we have the freedom of belief.[/b]
No, there aren't restrictions, but if you're going to argue against it, you should have reasoning to back it up.
Originally posted by A! Elbereth@Aug 1 2004, 05:20 AM
But because I feel so strongly for my faith, I don't feel the need to look for another reason.
That's too bad, it really is.
Originally posted by A! Elbereth@Aug 1 2004, 05:20 AM
However, if the supreme court is to argue this, the church will be left out and the professionals would use other findings and arguments to convince a judge (although it pisses me off that some high and mighty judge thinks he knows what's best for America). It takes years to make a decision like this as well.
Good! The church SHOULD be left out. They don't represent America. We still have Atheists, muslims, buddhists, etc. We also have seperation of church and state. Judges are appointed because they know the law better than most people and they make decisions based on the law and the constitution. If you don't like that, then that's too bad. They are the judiciary and they're allowed to have power too.
<!--QuoteBegin-A! Elbereth@Aug 1 2004, 05:20 AM
And as to the psychologists, I believe they overexaggerate and lie to patients in order to make money. They are doctors, and doctors are wrong a good percent of the time because they have to stick to strict, impersonal reasoning. Because of this I don't trust their studies. Even if they were true it would only discount my second-hand reason.[/quote]
Yeah, those damn psychologists. Always lying so they can get their way. Listen, these people know how the mind works much better than you or I. I believe that, unless you have a degree in psychology, or unless you have the condition they're speaking of, you probably shouldn't be attempting to discredit them. They know what they're talking about. To say that all of these psychologists are just trying to make money is bullshit. You don't know that and you're just making up things because you can't admit that you were wrong. Doctors are not wrong a good percent of the time, they are wrong a very small percent of the time. They are paid to get it right, and most of the time they do. Staying with strict, impersonal reasoning does not mean they get it wrong, it means they stay objective and correct. So, you should trust their studies. I believe the only reason you're attacking them is because they took away one of your arguments. And, that's just too bad.
Doug
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
this study means nothing. i didnt find any thing about how many couples or familys were involved in this study. for all we know, they could have only studied one family.
if it does say somewhere in there how many people were involved in the study, then please, be my guest and make me look like an ass.
if it does say somewhere in there how many people were involved in the study, then please, be my guest and make me look like an ass.
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
No, it doesn't say, but I learned in my psychology class that for it to be an "official" study the number has to be significantly high. I want to say 5000, but don't quote me on that.
They would never decieve people by studying one family. How can people be so cynical? These are professionals, they're going to act appropriatley.
Doug
They would never decieve people by studying one family. How can people be so cynical? These are professionals, they're going to act appropriatley.
Doug
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
There is a large - LARGE - difference between Michael Moore, who is a hollywood filmmaker, and the American Psychological Association who are professionals that help people. That's like comparing apples and potatoes. (oranges are still fruits, lol)
Doug
Doug
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
Micheal More brought truth to a nation based on lies.. bush is the one blowing smoke up your ass..
Marriage between to people of the same sex is perfectly healthy... its about time we stopped being so stupid about it.. when are we going to stop letting the christians fuck us up the ass??
really..
its a load of crap that we cater to it like we do.. Might does not make right.. There is no social detriment to it, there is only jackass people who would have top stop insisting on being tops and take a little bottom action..
Marriage between to people of the same sex is perfectly healthy... its about time we stopped being so stupid about it.. when are we going to stop letting the christians fuck us up the ass??
really..
its a load of crap that we cater to it like we do.. Might does not make right.. There is no social detriment to it, there is only jackass people who would have top stop insisting on being tops and take a little bottom action..
--nj
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
Originally posted by CanadaCraig@Aug 1 2004, 02:42 PM
But are they [or were they] wrong? And what about 10 years from NOW? What are we embracing as the 'truth' that a future generation will dismiss as nonsense?
We should always try to be objective. We should always question the conclusions made by others - even IF everything in us believes what they are saying is the absolute truth.
Craig, as far as we knew back then, it was an illness. Then, as the science evolved, they discovered that they were wrong and the changed it. Could this be wrong? Of course it could, I'm not denying that. But, until this is disproven, it should be treated as true. You're correct, it could be dismissed by a future generation, but just because they're making a statement that some people don't agree with, doesn't mean that the organization should be discredited. The APA has been significant in discovering mental illnesses and they are very professional in what they do. They should not be discredited by anyone, and unless this can be proven wrong, we should presume that this study speaks the truth.
As for the statement you bolded, I should have continued it, "They know what they're talking about more than any of us." (If that makes sense)
Doug
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
Originally posted by Doug@Aug 1 2004, 07:29 AM
Yeah, those damn psychologists.? Always lying so they can get their way. Listen, these people know how the mind works much better than you or I.? I believe that, unless you have a degree in psychology, or unless you have the condition they're speaking of, you probably shouldn't be attempting to discredit them.? They know what they're talking about.? To say that all of these psychologists are just trying to make money is bullshit.? You don't know that and you're just making up things because you can't admit that you were wrong.? Doctors are not wrong a good percent of the time, they are wrong a very small percent of the time.? They are paid to get it right, and most of the time they do.? Staying with strict, impersonal reasoning does not mean they get it wrong, it means they stay objective and correct.? So, you should trust their studies.? I believe the only reason you're attacking them is because they took away one of your arguments.? And, that's just too bad.
Doug
How on earth did you percieve what I said as an attack? Why, that's poppycock! lol
I've never been fond of psychologists. The fact that they think gays make better parents than genetic ones did not make me form my opinion of them over night. And I still don't believe gays make better parents than all. I'm sure they can be very loving parents and give tons of opportunities for a child, but I believe that your birth parents are the best ones. I believe that a child will feel an emptiness that a child who only has one parent feels. They will miss the parent of the other sex that they do not have. A man fills a certain role in a childs heart, just as a woman fills a certain one too.
This is like a sub-argument to me. No matter what kind of parents they make, I'm still not for gay marriage. I follow my beliefs first and foremost, and I don't need a psychologist to back me up.
How long did this study even last? Does it say? I think I'll check.
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
Go ahead and check, but I can tell you it doesn't say. You can email one of the people listed and I'm sure they would tell you.
Also, they said that in some cases gay parents are better than straight parents. What are those cases? I don't know. I emailed them for an explanation, but I haven't gotten a reply yet (probably because it's the weekend). You're right, birth parents sometimes are the best, but then you've got all of the children in adoption agencies, and you have parents that beat their children and neglect their children, and the homeless children. So, sometimes birth parents aren't the best parents.
You can go ahead and follow those beliefs, but just because someone has different beliefs doesn't mean that those are wrong and that they should have your beliefs imposed upon them.
Doug
Also, they said that in some cases gay parents are better than straight parents. What are those cases? I don't know. I emailed them for an explanation, but I haven't gotten a reply yet (probably because it's the weekend). You're right, birth parents sometimes are the best, but then you've got all of the children in adoption agencies, and you have parents that beat their children and neglect their children, and the homeless children. So, sometimes birth parents aren't the best parents.
You can go ahead and follow those beliefs, but just because someone has different beliefs doesn't mean that those are wrong and that they should have your beliefs imposed upon them.
Doug
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
Originally posted by Doug@Aug 1 2004, 01:38 PM
Go ahead and check, but I can tell you it doesn't say.? You can email one of the people listed and I'm sure they would tell you.
Also, they said that in some cases gay parents are better than straight parents.? What are those cases?? I don't know.? I emailed them for an explanation, but I haven't gotten a reply yet (probably because it's the weekend).? You're right, birth parents sometimes are the best, but then you've got all of the children in adoption agencies, and you have parents that beat their children and neglect their children, and the homeless children.? So, sometimes birth parents aren't the best parents.
You can go ahead and follow those beliefs, but just because someone has different beliefs doesn't mean that those are wrong and that they should have your beliefs imposed upon them.
Doug
I liked your reply. Thank you.
If I discount the fact that I don't think homosexuality is a good path, and if gay marriage was fine and all that, I'd give you that gay couples would benefit to orphans. I suppose there can be cases in which children were doing great, but one study doesn't prove much, especially if it was only in some cases. When they conduct more than one study, for a long amount of time, than perhaps whatever results they get could be promising.
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
There is a big difference here. The big book of what actually classifies as mental illnesses (I believe it is called the DSM 9) is filled with the contents of what Psychologists have come to a consensus about as being a mental illness. It is not necessarly based on actual science or a study to back it up, and homosexuality was removed after the psychologists reached a consensus that it was not a mental illness. This topic however is about a scientific study, though we are lacking some important details about it. They are two far different type of things.Originally posted by CanadaCraig@Aug 1 2004, 03:42 PM
It was - after all - the very same people that you hold in such high regard that once classifed homosexuality as a mental illness.
NAAM
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
Originally posted by yoaliens3000@Jul 31 2004, 12:43 PM
in general, i just think its terrible that this country is loosing all of its tradition. look at history. what happened when major empires lost all of their tradition and family became less and less important in society. theres no doubt that its happening here. dont think that saying this country is going to fall a part or something, thats not what im saying. just something to think about.
this post may or may not make alot of sense, but thats alright.
it was also tradition at one point in time for wealthy families to have slaves. some christians also believed in that, too.
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
Hehe, that's what I said matt!
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
Originally posted by yoaliens3000@Aug 1 2004, 10:25 PM
sigh.
marriage has a stronger and longer history in this country, longer then slavery. im not talkin about those short lived tradations. marriage is a prime example of age old tradition in this country.
Slavery was around when this country started, as was marriage, as was women staying home and men working. Same amount of time.
Doug
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
Originally posted by Doug+Aug 1 2004, 10:27 PM--<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'<tr<tdQUOTE (Doug @ Aug 1 2004, 10:27 PM)</td</tr<tr<td id='QUOTE'<!--QuoteBegin-yoaliens3000@Aug 1 2004, 10:25 PM
sigh.
marriage has a stronger and longer history in this country, longer then slavery. im not talkin about those short lived tradations. marriage is a prime example of age old tradition in this country.
Slavery was around when this country started, as was marriage, as was women staying home and men working. Same amount of time.
Doug[/b][/quote]
no more slaves
women arnt staying home anymore
we are still getting married
which tradation seceded? which in turn, is the stronger tradation.
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Re: Psychologists Support Gay Marriage
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