100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
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100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
Study: 100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
Thu Oct 28, 2004 02:57 PM ET
By Patricia Reaney
LONDON (Reuters) - Tens of thousands of Iraqis have been killed in violence since the U.S.-led invasion last year, American public health experts have calculated in a report that estimates there were 100,000 "excess deaths" in 18 months.
The rise in the death rate was mainly due to violence and much of it was caused by U.S. air strikes on towns and cities.
"Making conservative assumptions, we think that about 100,000 excess deaths, or more have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq," said Les Roberts of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in a report published online by The Lancet medical journal.
"The use of air power in areas with lots of civilians appears to be killing a lot of women and children," Roberts told Reuters.
The report came just days before the U.S. presidential election in which the Iraq war has been a major issue.
Mortality was already high in Iraq before the war because of United Nations sanctions blocking food and medical imports but the researchers described what they found as shocking.
The new figures are based on surveys done by the researchers in Iraq in September 2004. They compared Iraqi deaths during 14.6 months before the invasion in March 2003 and the 17.8 months after it by conducting household surveys in randomly selected neighborhoods.
Previous estimates based on think tank and media sources put the Iraqi civilian death toll at up to 16,053 and military fatalities as high as 6,370.
By comparison about 849 U.S. military were killed in combat or attacks and another 258 died in accidents or incidents not related to fighting, according to the Pentagon.
VERY BAD FOR IRAQI CIVILIANS
The researchers blamed air strikes for many of the deaths.
"What we have evidence of is the use of air power in populated urban areas and the bad consequences of it," Roberts said.
Gilbert Burnham, who collaborated on the research, said U.S. military action in Iraq was "very bad for Iraqi civilians."
"We were not expecting the level of deaths from violence that we found in this study and we hope this will lead to some serious discussions of how military and political aims can be achieved in a way that is not so detrimental to civilians populations," he told Reuters in an interview.
The researchers did 33 cluster surveys of 30 households each, recording the date, circumstances and cause of deaths.
They found that the risk of death from violence in the period after the invasion was 58 times higher than before the war.
Before the war the major causes of death were heart attacks, chronic disorders and accidents. That changed after the war.
Two-thirds of violent deaths in the study were reported in Falluja, the insurgent held city 50 km (32 miles) west of Baghdad which had been repeatedly hit by U.S. air strikes.
"Our results need further verification and should lead to changes to reduce non-combatant deaths from air strikes," Roberts added in the study.
Richard Horton, editor of The Lancet, said the research which was submitted to the journal earlier this month had been peer-reviewed, edited and fast-tracked for publication because of its importance in the evolving security situation in Iraq.
"But these findings also raise questions for those far removed from Iraq -- in the governments of the countries responsible for launching a pre-emptive war," Horton said in an editorial.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtm ... ID=6648908
Thu Oct 28, 2004 02:57 PM ET
By Patricia Reaney
LONDON (Reuters) - Tens of thousands of Iraqis have been killed in violence since the U.S.-led invasion last year, American public health experts have calculated in a report that estimates there were 100,000 "excess deaths" in 18 months.
The rise in the death rate was mainly due to violence and much of it was caused by U.S. air strikes on towns and cities.
"Making conservative assumptions, we think that about 100,000 excess deaths, or more have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq," said Les Roberts of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in a report published online by The Lancet medical journal.
"The use of air power in areas with lots of civilians appears to be killing a lot of women and children," Roberts told Reuters.
The report came just days before the U.S. presidential election in which the Iraq war has been a major issue.
Mortality was already high in Iraq before the war because of United Nations sanctions blocking food and medical imports but the researchers described what they found as shocking.
The new figures are based on surveys done by the researchers in Iraq in September 2004. They compared Iraqi deaths during 14.6 months before the invasion in March 2003 and the 17.8 months after it by conducting household surveys in randomly selected neighborhoods.
Previous estimates based on think tank and media sources put the Iraqi civilian death toll at up to 16,053 and military fatalities as high as 6,370.
By comparison about 849 U.S. military were killed in combat or attacks and another 258 died in accidents or incidents not related to fighting, according to the Pentagon.
VERY BAD FOR IRAQI CIVILIANS
The researchers blamed air strikes for many of the deaths.
"What we have evidence of is the use of air power in populated urban areas and the bad consequences of it," Roberts said.
Gilbert Burnham, who collaborated on the research, said U.S. military action in Iraq was "very bad for Iraqi civilians."
"We were not expecting the level of deaths from violence that we found in this study and we hope this will lead to some serious discussions of how military and political aims can be achieved in a way that is not so detrimental to civilians populations," he told Reuters in an interview.
The researchers did 33 cluster surveys of 30 households each, recording the date, circumstances and cause of deaths.
They found that the risk of death from violence in the period after the invasion was 58 times higher than before the war.
Before the war the major causes of death were heart attacks, chronic disorders and accidents. That changed after the war.
Two-thirds of violent deaths in the study were reported in Falluja, the insurgent held city 50 km (32 miles) west of Baghdad which had been repeatedly hit by U.S. air strikes.
"Our results need further verification and should lead to changes to reduce non-combatant deaths from air strikes," Roberts added in the study.
Richard Horton, editor of The Lancet, said the research which was submitted to the journal earlier this month had been peer-reviewed, edited and fast-tracked for publication because of its importance in the evolving security situation in Iraq.
"But these findings also raise questions for those far removed from Iraq -- in the governments of the countries responsible for launching a pre-emptive war," Horton said in an editorial.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtm ... ID=6648908
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors" ~Plato
.533K:
"One death is a tragedy,
One million deaths is a statistic" ~Joseph Stalin
.533K:
"One death is a tragedy,
One million deaths is a statistic" ~Joseph Stalin
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Re: 100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
sence u really didnt start much of a discussion, just posted a new story... so whats your opinion fryguy? do you support it? do you care about it? do you blame bush for people dying? are you happy with it? are you concerned about it? are you mad about it?
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Re: 100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
Sorry I'm in the middle of getting ready for work. Running late, BTW.
This does make me mad, there are over 100,000 innocent lives lost because of this war. Their blood is on our hands. Do I blame Bush? Yes, but I also blame the members of congress who supported his decision. War without just cause is wrong. What are these people dying for? Their liberation? How can you liberate someone if they're dead.
This does make me mad, there are over 100,000 innocent lives lost because of this war. Their blood is on our hands. Do I blame Bush? Yes, but I also blame the members of congress who supported his decision. War without just cause is wrong. What are these people dying for? Their liberation? How can you liberate someone if they're dead.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors" ~Plato
.533K:
"One death is a tragedy,
One million deaths is a statistic" ~Joseph Stalin
.533K:
"One death is a tragedy,
One million deaths is a statistic" ~Joseph Stalin
- Emily
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Re: 100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
The same Congress that John Kerry was apart of.
It seems that Bush and Kerry are on the same level to me.
It seems that Bush and Kerry are on the same level to me.
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And sometimes I still feel the bruise
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And sometimes I still feel the bruise
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Re: 100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
Originally posted by Emily@Oct 28 2004, 09:44 PM
The same Congress that John Kerry was apart of.
It seems that Bush and Kerry are on the same level to me.
He's 1 of 100 people...
Doug
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Re: 100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
Does that change anything? I don't think so because he did vote to go to war, but then again he claims without all the facts and misleading facts.
Don't get me wrong, I do support and would vote Kerry, it's just more and more I think it's a matter of picking the lesser of two evils, not the man that's right for the job.
And actually, there's like 535 members of Congress.
Don't get me wrong, I do support and would vote Kerry, it's just more and more I think it's a matter of picking the lesser of two evils, not the man that's right for the job.
And actually, there's like 535 members of Congress.
I'm under no illusion
As to what I meant to you
But you made an impression
And sometimes I still feel the bruise
-"Sometimes I still feel the bruise " Trembling Blue Stars
As to what I meant to you
But you made an impression
And sometimes I still feel the bruise
-"Sometimes I still feel the bruise " Trembling Blue Stars
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Re: 100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
Yeah, he's one of 100 in the senate...
He didn't vote to go to war, he voted to give the president the authority to go to war. And, if you look at US History, everytime that has happened, whoever was president at the time built a real coalition with very strong allies. Nobody knew this was going to happen...
Doug
He didn't vote to go to war, he voted to give the president the authority to go to war. And, if you look at US History, everytime that has happened, whoever was president at the time built a real coalition with very strong allies. Nobody knew this was going to happen...
Doug
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Re: 100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
What?! You don't think Poland is strong?!?!
God, Jon Stewart is so funny. If you ever get the chance or if it's possible, you should see the Daily Show after the first debate when Stewart remarks on Poland.
God, Jon Stewart is so funny. If you ever get the chance or if it's possible, you should see the Daily Show after the first debate when Stewart remarks on Poland.
I'm under no illusion
As to what I meant to you
But you made an impression
And sometimes I still feel the bruise
-"Sometimes I still feel the bruise " Trembling Blue Stars
As to what I meant to you
But you made an impression
And sometimes I still feel the bruise
-"Sometimes I still feel the bruise " Trembling Blue Stars
- 5a5
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Re: 100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
^^^^^^^^^ i will say it one last time, DO NOT make rude comments about Poland, young guys that i know that should have fun now are fighting in Iraq and if u would knew a bit about Polish history u wouldnt make those stupid comments cause u would understand, Polish army went to Iraq because ulike US Poland hasnt been a free country for hundreds of yrs, it took a lot to get that way, so the Polish president's reason was that if anyone needs liberation then they'll do everything to help, what Bush's reasons are hell if i know
Now you'll find with everything you lose
Your path clears with everything you choose
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The best is yet to come
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Is there someway I can show you
The best is yet to come
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Re: 100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
It's not insulting Poland. I have nothing against Poland.
But with a country like the US do you really think the best we can do is Poland as our second? I don't, I think there are stronger countries out there that would have been better.
Please, don't bring it up that you know 'tons of young guys' who are fighting over there. I've lost someone in Afghanistan, but I have never thrown that in anyone's face while trying to make an argument.
But with a country like the US do you really think the best we can do is Poland as our second? I don't, I think there are stronger countries out there that would have been better.
Please, don't bring it up that you know 'tons of young guys' who are fighting over there. I've lost someone in Afghanistan, but I have never thrown that in anyone's face while trying to make an argument.
I'm under no illusion
As to what I meant to you
But you made an impression
And sometimes I still feel the bruise
-"Sometimes I still feel the bruise " Trembling Blue Stars
As to what I meant to you
But you made an impression
And sometimes I still feel the bruise
-"Sometimes I still feel the bruise " Trembling Blue Stars
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Re: 100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
Emily, 5a5 and I have had this conversation before about that very same comment. Do a topic search for "debate" and find my first analysis. A fight ensues...
Doug
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Re: 100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
jon stewart is a joke, i think seeing him on crossfire ruined my respect for him.Originally posted by Emily@Oct 28 2004, 11:06 PM
What?! You don't think Poland is strong?!?!
God, Jon Stewart is so funny. If you ever get the chance or if it's possible, you should see the Daily Show after the first debate when Stewart remarks on Poland.
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Re: 100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
Well, he was right, Tucker Carlson IS as big a dick on his show as any other...
Doug
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"Yeah, I'm a great lesbian. Are you a good lesbian, Doug?" - Jenna