War On Iraq, Please Read.

[Queergrrl]

Originally posted by partykid12@Apr 7 2003, 10:44 PM

The reason why there is so much violence is because of the light gun laws.? If you weren't allowed to own guns unless you were a cop, then there would not be places for people to get guns.? Its common sense really.. people who import guns and buy them on the blackmarket are not the type of people that are going to rob you at gunpoint in an alley, they are more proffessional criminals... but thats a whole different topic.

Oh contraire! Actually criminals don't care about laws and they will find guns on the black market or anywhere else. Or start stabbing people. We are supposed to have guns to protect ourselves from criminals and the gov't. You are crazy if you are willing to give up that right. And it is in the constitition and no one, no one can touch our constitution

And actually it is a proven fact that places that allow good people to have guns, crime goes down because criminals don't know if they would be shot at too. And places like Australia maybe, have a high crime rate because they don't get to carry guns. I may be wrong, either AUstralia is allowed to have guns and crime is low or crime is high b/c they don't get guns... I can check it out again if you are interested... anyway...



"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns"



And I don't care if they are PROFESSIONAL CRIMINALS or just trying to rape me. I want to be able to shoot them.

[Queergrrl]

So, it's time for a new one. And there are plenty of this topic in here anyway heh

[partykid12]

Originally posted by Queergrrl+Apr 8 2003, 09:43 PM--<div class='quotetop'QUOTE(Queergrrl @ Apr 8 2003, 09:43 PM)

<!--QuoteBegin-partykid12@Apr 7 2003, 10:44 PM

The reason why there is so much violence is because of the light gun laws.? If you weren't allowed to own guns unless you were a cop, then there would not be places for people to get guns.? Its common sense really.. people who import guns and buy them on the blackmarket are not the type of people that are going to rob you at gunpoint in an alley, they are more proffessional criminals... but thats a whole different topic.

Oh contraire! Actually criminals don't care about laws and they will find guns on the black market or anywhere else. Or start stabbing people. We are supposed to have guns to protect ourselves from criminals and the gov't. You are crazy if you are willing to give up that right. And it is in the constitition and no one, no one can touch our constitution

And actually it is a proven fact that places that allow good people to have guns, crime goes down because criminals don't know if they would be shot at too. And places like Australia maybe, have a high crime rate because they don't get to carry guns. I may be wrong, either AUstralia is allowed to have guns and crime is low or crime is high b/c they don't get guns... I can check it out again if you are interested... anyway...



"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns"



And I don't care if they are PROFESSIONAL CRIMINALS or just trying to rape me. I want to be able to shoot them.[/b]

You missed my point I think. Let me rephrase. What I meant was that if you make owning a gun illegal, there would be no place to get them. Basically the only people who would be able to get a gun would be the mafia or a proffessional criminal that can put an order of AK-47's from Russia. I mean, if I wanted a gun, I know many places I could go buy one right now .. illegally. If there were no guns, then those sources would dry up quickly and I would no longer be able to get a gun. The proffessional criminals I speak of, are not the type of people to go rape a random girl. I'm talking more of the mafia/high level drug dealers (those who deal millions of dollars)/those with connections in other countries. You talk about countries being safe because they have no gun laws... you mean like Russia?



I live in Baltimore.. #1 murder rate in the country... we have at least 2 murders a day all having to do with gunshot wounds. Tell me wheres the problem in that? Maybe too many people have guns? Maybe gun laws should be more strict? Maybe guns shouldn't even be on the streets?

[partykid12]

It is a lot easier to put a control on guns than on drugs though.

[partykid12]

No, because not as many people use guns as do drugs. There will always be a market for drugs..



[edit] I don't think drugs are stupid... that's not a fair comment.

[partykid12]

People have a better chance at winning a fight when its against someone with a knife. Its not even a fight if they have a gun... bang, your dead. People are the problem, but removing guns would be a HUGE benefit.

[partykid12]

Originally posted by squee@Apr 9 2003, 09:38 PM

or you can just remove the people..

Yeah, umm.. thats' not going to happen...

[partykid12]

"Should" implies that it is possible, which it is not. We are actually taking the people who kill others off the streets if you think about it, so theoretically we are presently doing what you say and its not working.

[Queergrrl]

Originally posted by partykid12+Apr 8 2003, 06:40 PM--<div class='quotetop'QUOTE(partykid12 @ Apr 8 2003, 06:40 PM)

Originally posted by Queergrrl@Apr 8 2003, 09:43 PM

<!--QuoteBegin-partykid12@Apr 7 2003, 10:44 PM

The reason why there is so much violence is because of the light gun laws.? If you weren't allowed to own guns unless you were a cop, then there would not be places for people to get guns.? Its common sense really.. people who import guns and buy them on the blackmarket are not the type of people that are going to rob you at gunpoint in an alley, they are more proffessional criminals... but thats a whole different topic.

Oh contraire! Actually criminals don't care about laws and they will find guns on the black market or anywhere else. Or start stabbing people. We are supposed to have guns to protect ourselves from criminals and the gov't. You are crazy if you are willing to give up that right. And it is in the constitition and no one, no one can touch our constitution

And actually it is a proven fact that places that allow good people to have guns, crime goes down because criminals don't know if they would be shot at too. And places like Australia maybe, have a high crime rate because they don't get to carry guns. I may be wrong, either AUstralia is allowed to have guns and crime is low or crime is high b/c they don't get guns... I can check it out again if you are interested... anyway...



"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns"



And I don't care if they are PROFESSIONAL CRIMINALS or just trying to rape me. I want to be able to shoot them.

You missed my point I think. Let me rephrase. What I meant was that if you make owning a gun illegal, there would be no place to get them. Basically the only people who would be able to get a gun would be the mafia or a proffessional criminal that can put an order of AK-47's from Russia. I mean, if I wanted a gun, I know many places I could go buy one right now .. illegally. If there were no guns, then those sources would dry up quickly and I would no longer be able to get a gun. The proffessional criminals I speak of, are not the type of people to go rape a random girl. I'm talking more of the mafia/high level drug dealers (those who deal millions of dollars)/those with connections in other countries. You talk about countries being safe because they have no gun laws... you mean like Russia?



I live in Baltimore.. #1 murder rate in the country... we have at least 2 murders a day all having to do with gunshot wounds. Tell me wheres the problem in that? Maybe too many people have guns? Maybe gun laws should be more strict? Maybe guns shouldn't even be on the streets?[/b]

I said place that allow people to carry guns, crime goes down. It is statistically proven the CORRECT WAY. per capita.



And people will still get guns. It doesn't matter what law you make. Or people will kill other people in other ways... Why take the guns away from good people? And Squee, the constitution has been twisted in many ways but it clearly says that we have the right to bear arms. And it wouldn't make sense only during war because if our gov't went corrupt how would we get them during the war? We wouldn't. Therefore we should always have them. the forefathers were not stupid

Furthermore, If you were going to rob a bank and you knew that the civilians inside may all shoot at you too, wouldn't you think twice about robbing it?

Two murders a day? Thought it would be higher. Do a most your civilians have guns to protect themselves? And shootings within gangs shouldn't even count. lol

[Queergrrl]

Originally posted by squee@Apr 8 2003, 07:27 PM

i agree with partykid..



i mean there are other ways to protect yourself besides a gun..mase, fog horn(heh)..shooting someone isnt the only way..



so if guns werent allowed, crime rates would be a lot lower..



though this is kind of the same principle as drugs, if no one sold them, no one would buy them, and no one would overdose..

Mase vs. a gun. Wonder who would win. How far does mase spray? How often are you prepared to spray it? Hey if you don't want to carry a gun, then don't. I just hate people trying to take away our constitutional right.



And what proof do you have of the low crime with no guns? I did research and in Austria or somewhere when they banned guns a man went on a mass murder rampage. That didn't work. And in many other places crime has gone down because good people could have the guns to protect themselves. Bullies pick on the weaker kids. Criminals prey on the unprepared. Criminals are less likely to go after someone who is just as loaded as they are!!! THe point is you can't stop criminals from commiting crimes....but you should be able to protect yourself and maybe minimize your chances.

[partykid12]

Umm, if you take away gun sales, the robber wouldn't have a gun to rob the bank in the first place, its common logic. 2 murders per day is a great deal, you expected it to be more? And even if the robber were to come in the bank, people are not allowed to have guns on them while on the streets... thats a good law, I seriously do not konw where your coming from with this... it makes no logical sense.. the crime would be so much higher if we were allowed to carry loaded guns wherever we went. People would shoot people just for giving them the finger on the road.



Again, I will say, if you ban all gun sales unless you are law enforcment of some kind, then there would be no guns for average criminals to use. A violent bank robber is not a professional, usually professionals are the ones that rob from corporate places, they don't want a petty $50,000.. they want $5,000,000. If you ban gun sales, the only way people would be able to buy guns would be through the blackmarket, and the only way guns would be able to go on the black market would be from imported guns. Tell me something, do you know anyone who has a connection for a AK-47 that was brought over from another country? I guarentee you don't. Some average or amateur criminal will not have the means to get a gun... only the mafia or some other kind of high level criminals will have, and they honestly don't pose that much of a threat to people... They don't like to cause attention to themselves, and murdering someone would definetly cause attention.

[Queergrrl]

Originally posted by partykid12@Apr 10 2003, 05:06 PM

Umm, if you take away gun sales, the robber wouldn't have a gun to rob the bank in the first place, its common logic.? 2 murders per day is a great deal, you expected it to be more?? And even if the robber were to come in the bank, people are not allowed to have guns on them while on the streets... thats a good law, I seriously do not konw where your coming from with this... it makes no logical sense.. the crime would be so much higher if we were allowed to carry loaded guns wherever we went.? People would shoot people just for giving them the finger on the road.?



Again, I will say, if you ban all gun sales unless you are law enforcment of some kind, then there would be no guns for average criminals to use.? A violent bank robber is not a professional, usually professionals are the ones that rob from corporate places, they don't want a petty $50,000.. they want $5,000,000.? If you ban gun sales, the only way people would be able to buy guns would be through the blackmarket, and the only way guns would be able to go on the black market would be from imported guns.? Tell me something, do you know anyone who has a connection for a AK-47 that was brought over from another country?? I guarentee you don't.? Some average or amateur criminal will not have the means to get a gun... only the mafia or some other kind of high level criminals will have, and they honestly don't pose that much of a threat to people... They don't like to cause attention to themselves, and murdering someone would definetly cause attention.

I hate to tell you, but you are using a logical fallacy. Criminals will still get guns some how or still kill people!!!! The black market will still be there no matter what. We have rules agaisnt drugs and we have all sorts of officials tracking drugs and trying everything to stop it ,and millions still get drugs and still use it. How do you defend that? And what is wrong with good people at the bank having guns to stop the robber? Why is it dangerous for good people to have guns? Good people will only have them for protection and bad people will always have the guns. There are the laws now that don't allow my mom to carry a loaded gun and crime is bad! So what do you make of that?



And the point is I HAVE PROOF THAT CRIME DOES GOES DOWN!!!!! The three countires with the highest PER CAPITA gun violence : AUstrailia England Belgium have the highest crime rate.But guess what. GUNS ARE OUTLAWED. NO ONE CAN HAVE THEM. Now, please explain this to me how that happens! If guns are outlawed and there is still crime, who and how do those people have guns? According to you they wouldn't be able to GET guns. So how do you defend that? Remember to use facts, not personal emotions to prove your point.

[partykid12]

Highest crime rate in what sense? Murders? Robberys? Drugs? Rapes? Computer crimes? DUIs? So what if they have high crime rate, that doesn't mean its because they dont have guns. And the reason the war on drugs is different from guns is because drugs is an underground operation. Tell me exactly, what guns are manufactured in high quantity amounts for sale illegally? Manufactures make them, legaly! Dont compare drugs and guns, totally different things. I'm sure all the "good" people would only use their guns for "good" things. Please... Its never going to happen. Your mom should never be able to carry a gun in her car or herself when she goes in public, that would just ask for chaos. You showed me pointless proof.. show me countries that have no gun laws, and show me their murder rate per population... then I might start to agree with you, as of right now, its a ludacris desire.

[Queergrrl]

HAHA. You are so blind. And you are already to old to be saved. I hope you get mugged at gun point and that your mase can save you. And I believe the crime was gun violence but i will check. Either way it was a violent crime. And it is because of the gun ban because it rose after guns were banned!

[Queergrrl]

So you really don't want a gun? What if someone broke into your house shot and killed your sister and raped your mother right in front of you. You would have to watch it all because you would have no means of protection. If you honestly can say " I don't care if that happend because I don't like guns they scare me and I don't want one" then I would be okay with it. I would think you were crazy, but atleast it would be consistant. But something tells me you would want to be able to blow his brians out. I just get sick of people being hypocrites about this and other things like saying they are against the death penalty until you ask "would you want someone who killed your mom to be put to death?" and they say "yes" I HATE HYPOCRITES!



If you hate guns fine. But don't fucken touch my rights

[nj100688]

would you want someone who killed your mom to be put to death?

i wouldn't want them to be put to death. thats the easy way out. i would want them to rot in a 4x4 cell for the rest of their lives.

[partykid12]

Queergrl, you are missing the point... the robber/rapist would not be able to do that, because guns will be outlawed, are you not reading my posts completely? Here you go with the age thing again... Maybe your too young to see rational ideas?

[Queergrrl]

Obviously your not reading mine. The countries with guns banned have the highest crime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Therefore your theory is proven wrong ALREADY



And answer my questions cause i took time to type them!

[daffodildreams]

correction, america has the highest rate of gun crime.

[musicrazychica]

Oh my god! I couldn't of said so better myself. I totally think that this is Bush's war and not the Americans. I was reading this persond reply about how Bush wouldn't go through all the trouble of this war for oil, but why wouldn't he? What does he have to loose? I mean, like he actually gives a damn about all the people who are dying and shit? He don't give a damn because even if Iraq did have all these "weapons" he would still be the safest person in the whole coutry or world for that matter. And also, IF Iraq had all these "weapons" like Bush tried to make us think, then where are they since we are in control of most of Iraq? And I do want to make this point clear, Bush tried to make us think that Saddam had all these "weapons" so that we would support HIS war, yet the people who went over there to inspect saw nothing of the sort. And IF Saddam had these weapons like Bush claimed, why would Saddam even let us in to inspect? It's so obvious, that it's stupid that people are actually supporting Bush's war. Meanwhile, thousands of people are dying for Bush's want of oil. These people were not only soliders, but innocent children, husbands, and wifes that were just located at the wrong place when our army by Bush's orders bombed Iraq. I mean, as much as I hate to say this, WE americans were bombing Iraq with bombs and all this shit, when all the Iraqui's had were hand granades! I mean, come on! And even if supposedly we were doing it to hit Saddam, like I said before, since he is the leader or was, he was the most protected person in Iraq, so what's the whole point of using all these bombs and crap. A last thing was that Bush obviously started this war with Iraq for his own interests (oil) because he asked that Saddam and his sons go away from their country, and the country they rule. I mean that was so ridiculous because it's like Saddam telling Bush, "Ok, get out you and your sons or i'll start bombing". Of course Bush would say no, because who would leave all that power just because. Yet, Bush knew Saddam wouldn't back down and that's why he made this ridiculous requirement so that Bush wouldn't have any other "option".