Are Cynical People Bad People?

[sinical_sycology]

What do you guys think when you first see the word cynical? Does it have a negative connotation to it? Do you think cynical people are bad people? Please post your thoughts just again trying to see what people think. (Don't worry say whatever you want I won't take any personal offense )

[InnocenceLost57]

I think cynical is just jaded, not bad.



Like, they realise that the world is indeed NOT a happy place, and that pretty much everything is "bullsugar" as my teacher put it....we actually had a discussion about this just today.



But cynics have had too much experience - or rather, THINK they've experienced everything and pass judgment on the world. Sometimes that's fine; other times, people are cynical to be cool or try to seem better than anyone else. In that case, it's lame.



But Severus Snape will always be the sexiest cynic!



Basically, I don't feel strongly one way or the other....i think cynics can be a bit negative but really, that's the way the world works....

[PurplePoemPuppet]

Negativity is the biggest connotation with cynical, which doesn't mean to say that cynical people are bad people per se, in my opinion, however, negativity is obviously not a positive or pleasant way to perceive a person.



If you're looking for the worst possible outcome, I might attribute that as a product of one's environment. If one is constantly finding bad outcomes in many situations in life, or observe the bad outcomes of others, that person would seem more inclined to think the worst in every facet of life.



I don't think it's unreasonable to consider the worst, however, I personally think that not considering the positive is almost an unhealthy way to live. There's not really any basis I have for that, but it's just a personal feeling. I know when I'm feeling like the worst is always yet to come, I pretty much feel like shit... wouldn't make me a bad person for it. And it doesn't make any person who is a cynic a bad person either. Just a different way of living I guess.



*Edit as a quick note: very well said InnocenceLost!

[InnocenceLost57]

Haha, I love my TOK teacher - it's basically a philosophy class, and my teacher is awesome. He's so cynical himself, but not as negative as you would normally think - more sarcastic than cynical.



There are so many different words with different connotations....cynical, caustic, derisive, sarcastic, sardonic, each with its own inflection and connotation.



Cynical though has the connotation of jaded, really. Like, sarcasm from experience, whereas sarcasm could just be a biting comment.



Meh. I'm just repeating myself again.

[sinical_sycology]

interesting point of view but I find it that cynicism is often used with pessimism synonymously, which I can't blame people for as the two are somewhat similar, I'll wait for more responses then I'll post the difference between cynicism and thinking the world is bad and only bad things happen

[sinical_sycology]

hmmm LMAO while I was reading and thinking people responded quite quickly ok nonetheless I'll point out the difference now. Cynicism stemmed from the greek philosopher (yes it was a philosophy) Antisthenes, a student of Socrates who had taken a Socratic perspective and that was the naked truth is unattainable, the only thing we do know is that we know nothing blah blah blah. However Atisthenes and his followers who led very strict lifestyles of mendicants were ridiculed by the greek society and even by Socrates himself, and along came Diogenes. Now he took the same realizations of Atisthenes and modified it, he claimed that the human situation of trying to attain the naked truth was like a dog trying to chase it's tail,



Diogenes was a rather humorous fellow and constantly joked and made sarcastic comments on several issues all of course with a comedic aura to it all, he traveled all over wearing nothing but a loincloth and enjoying the beaches and the sun and everything that life had to offer (does that sound like a cynic?). Antisthenes was a pessimistic individual but when most modern cynics think of cynicism we think of Diogenes. I don't expect the worst in everything, I just question the validity of people's morals and beliefs and that people tend (emphasis on tend, meaning not always) to be insincere and that most people's actions (if kind) are for self-interests rather than just acts of virtue. Okay now given the exact definition, what do you guys think now?

[InnocenceLost57]

I'm still a bit confused about the exact definition you were giving?



You might want to spell it out a bit more clearly.



Nonetheless, I've had courses on the philosophers and we studied the Cynics. And as they apply to modern perspectives, Diogenes and Antisthenes are actually two ends of a spectrum and we're a bit in the middle - our definition generally isn't as humorous as Diogenies was, and not as strict as Antisthenes was. The view of everyone as acting in their own interests, that definetely fits into the definition that we use today.



But I guess it really comes down to, are you looking at it from a modern perspective or from a philosophic perspective? Cynicism in the philosophical perspective has to do with the unattainable nature of truth, while the modern perspective defines it as having a rather pessimistic or sarcastic view of the world in general, with a negative connotation about the word.



The way you asked the question, you made it sound like you were referring to cynical people in the modern world, not Cynics as in philosophers. Cynical people = sarcastic. Cynics = philosophers.

[sinical_sycology]

hmmm I see I suppose I could've elaborated a bit more, good to know that there are people who know the difference . Yes in the modern sense that is the definition, but being that modern cynicism stemmed from the philosophical idea, how should it be treated any different? I mean obviously yes they are different and as stated above and pretty much the history I gave between diogenes and atisthenes yes they are two people of the opposite spectrum yet again come from the same point of origin. The unattainable truth pertains more towards Socratic Philosophy, whilst cynicism is more of like saying the only thing necessary to lead a happy life is a lead a life of virtue but because we believe that people are self-interested and insincere this is theoretically impossible. Now you bring up the idea of modern cynicism but perhaps I didn't say that I reject the ideas of modern cynicism as it doesn't pertain to the original doctirines of cynicism and to me is more pessimistic than cynical. I was just exploring the confusion amongst the word itself and what image pops into people's heads when they think,see,or hear it. I tried to see the confusion between cynicism and pessimism and boviously there are a lot of ways you can go at it, but as I stated modern cynicism and the philosophical cynicism should be treated any differently, but since I reject the idea of modern cynicism is the idea of modern cynicism even existent or is it a branch of entirely different belief? hehe new question, yes I know confusing topic but amdist confusion we find clarity. But just to make sure, if you read what I typed....should modern cynicism be considered cynicism if it doesn't adhere to the original doctrines of the cynics?



My argument is no, you can't say modern christianity is christianity if they don't believe god, or you can't call modern buddhism buddhism if you don't believein the eight fold path. Modern cynicism to me cannot be called cynicism as to me it doesn't follow the beliefs of the original idea itself (considering that I belong to the Diogenes sect). Again just trying to spur some thoughts

[Fishhead]

Diogenes masturbated in the mud outside. Somehow this related to the philosophy, but I don't remember how. I found that particularly amusing. My english class did research papers on philosophies recently; I had existentialism.

[InnocenceLost57]

Lmao i love you.



To SS:



Just know that the question you asked refers to cynicism in the modern sense.



You ask how modern cynicism and Cynicism should be treated differently? They are basically two different things, even though they stemmed from the same idea. You figure thousands of years of changinc culture and society and vocabularies have gone into making cynicism into what it is now. Even though YOU reject the idea of modern cynicism, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Jsut because I say the sun isn't real, does it mean it won't rise the next day?



And I did read what you typed, and what I got out of it was: Laughing at all the people who don't know what cynicism really is, talking about a bunch of old philosophers who most people have never heard of, giving an unclear definition.



sorry if I sound snotty...it's way too early. but just letting you know that you come off as sounding rather superior, which can get irritating. Nothing personal.





But even if cynicism doesn't adhere to the original doctrines, many things don't. Religion and philosophy are only a few of several examples. But regardless of whether it DESERVES the name it has or not, that's how it is today. And the name may just be a reference to or a remembrance of the original philosophy, not saying that it IS how it was thousands of years ago.



Society today is very screwy anyways, and there are many thngs that don't adhere to t he original doctrines, but the names are kept to try to maintain that connection with the past. Just think of how much Christianity has changed over the years. Women can be ministers now, rites have changed, etc etc. They still believe in God, and cynics today as opposed to the original Cynics still believe in a somewhat pessimistic view of the world. Even though they have morphed into two different things, they still maintain connections to one another. Diogenes said that the human search for truth was like a dog chasing its tail - many cynics today still take this spirit or attitude (poking fun at something, disbelief in it, etc.), if not the exact view.



Just my 2 cents, man my head hurts.

[sinical_sycology]

lol hmm I might be wrong but I'm getting some hostility from you haha, but that's all good as I said say what you really feel, and when I say that I mean REALLY SAY WHAT YOU FEEL, so no need for sugarcoating haha, but interesting argument, yes I do reject that idea that modern cynicism is not what cynicism really is so when I say if it really exists what I mean is should it even be called cynicism? If it can't be called cynicsm then modern cynicism doesn't exist you can't call a goat a cow or the mooon the sun. Modern cynicism doesn't hold any of the original concepts of the actual philosophy itself so how can it even be connected to cynicism? It seems that cynic has come to be synonymous with negative, which it really doesn't mean that at all. Once again cynicism is the pursuit of living a virtuous life so one can attain happiness, that was the original idea, the new idea on the other describes people who view the world from a negative perspective. If you really want to continue please do so....I'm not backing down lol

[InnocenceLost57]

Haha sorry about that. I'd only been awake for about an hour and was v. grumpy.



But basically what I was saying was, even if it doesn't deserve the name, cynicism is what it's called now, and there's really no changing it. Is there even a reference to the philosophy in the dictionary? o.0



which is really a shame, because a lot of original philosophies are really beautiful and should apply to everyday life, but don't.



It's interesting to see how things have changed though, I wonder why! That would make an interesting study, how cynicism has evolved and why.

[sinical_sycology]

haha don't worry no problem, hmm that would be an interesting study maybe I can look into that later on but I've got a new question on my mind and I'm posting up a new topic, I would personally like to ask you to post there, you have a lot interesting perspectives and opinions and I would appreciate you sharing that on my new topic. Haha I've gone nuts with this thing, but it's really fun to see how people react to these things

[VittorioCole]

Let me preface this by saying I'm a very cynical person.



Really, when i think of a cynical person, i think of a person who sneers at false hope. Which really just makes them more of realists than anything else. Really, they've just got a different outlook on life than other people might.



Cheers.