Jessica Lynch: Decorated Hero?

[She]

Well, this is the most correct place I can think to put this, though please don't get into liberal-conservative name-calling.



Jessica Lynch was a female soldier captured by the Iraqis. They rescued her. Now she's a true hero, parades are being held in her honor. Yay. But, uh, what did she do, other than get captured and rescued?

[Sam]

She fought for her country. She risked her life to help other people. She was tortured so bad. She had alot of bones in her body broken and she was raped. She almost died. She deserves the parades. She is a hero.

[FiZzBaW]

Not to be disrespectful, but me and my family have been talking about this since like yesterday or whenever we where watching TV and they interupted regular programing to show her speak in a wheel chair and get honored. My opinion is, yes she was beaten up, yes she was serving her country, but that doesn;t make her any different than any other solider. I know it took alot of strenghth and guts to survive, but I do not think a Bronze star was merited, my grandfather faught in WWII and was the only surviver of his platoon, besides his commading officer whom he was assigned to protect, he deserved a bronze star and got it.



This post is in no way meant to be disrespectful, I just feel that she should not be called a hero.



-FiZz



-Disclaimer Applies, This post is simply opinion

[She]

Originally posted by Sam@Jul 24 2003, 01:42 AM

She fought for her country. She risked her life to help other people. She was tortured so bad. She had alot of bones in her body broken and she was raped. She almost died. She deserves the parades. She is a hero.

Risked her life... just like all the other soldiers over there? She's a victim of circumstance. She didn't do anything outstandingly courageous. She risked exactly what every other soldier did and she was unfortunate enough to get caught so she's a hero? She didn't do anything beyond the call of duty, didn't risk herself for someone else. It just doesn't seem right to call her a hero when, as FiZz said, so many others have gone through worse. And often, it earns even lesser honors.

[Sam]

Originally posted by She+Jul 24 2003, 12:02 AM--<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'<tr<tdQUOTE (She @ Jul 24 2003, 12:02 AM)</td</tr<tr<td id='QUOTE'<!--QuoteBegin-Sam@Jul 24 2003, 01:42 AM

She fought for her country. She risked her life to help other people. She was tortured so bad. She had alot of bones in her body broken and she was raped. She almost died. She deserves the parades. She is a hero.

Risked her life... just like all the other soldiers over there? She's a victim of circumstance. She didn't do anything outstandingly courageous. She risked exactly what every other soldier did and she was unfortunate enough to get caught so she's a hero? She didn't do anything beyond the call of duty, didn't risk herself for someone else. It just doesn't seem right to call her a hero when, as FiZz said, so many others have gone through worse. And often, it earns even lesser honors.[/b][/quote]



She was a prisoner of war and unlike so many others she survived. Most women who are prisoners of war don't survive. They are tortured, brutally raped and then murdered. She didn't let that happen to her. I think she deserves the metals and the parades. All soldiers are heros, I know that. But she is more. Its just my opinion.

[Nj]

come on people! She's a women! have we not heard of a term called propaganda????

[ice_princess]

Originally posted by Sam@Jul 24 2003, 08:42 AM

She fought for her country. She risked her life to help other people. .

since there was no non-conventional weapon found she didn't fought for usa or risked her life for other people. she fought for bush... in my opinion.



i know that in my country, people who get metals are people who did something and not just got kidnaped, yea, i think there should be something for her honor, but there are many people who were held captured who are just known in statics.



and to add fizzbaw said: there are many jewish females who were raped and abused during the hallocaust, none of them has any recagnation. infact, science uses the evil minded experments that were held on them. that is not honor at all.

[Jaegermeister]

Originally posted by kneesofmybees@Jul 24 2003, 02:15 AM

come on people! She's a women! have we not heard of a term called propaganda????

I sadly agree. The only reason this is in any way important is because she was a woman. That's why the media has latched onto it so much, and why the military is making a big deal of it.



TJ

[Queergrrl]

She's not a hero. But yeah..give her a parade for being one tough chick and a POW. Wasn't she a machanic or something that got lost? And I don't think the military is making a big deal about it. How can they be? It's the news that does everything! One marine guy I talked to a little after it happend hated her and said she screwed up!!!

[Queergrrl]

Originally posted by ice_princess+Jul 24 2003, 06:17 AM--<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'<tr<tdQUOTE (ice_princess @ Jul 24 2003, 06:17 AM)</td</tr<tr<td id='QUOTE'<!--QuoteBegin-Sam@Jul 24 2003, 08:42 AM

and to add fizzbaw said: there are many jewish females who were raped and abused during the hallocaust, none of them has any recagnation. infact, science uses the evil minded experments that were held on them. that is not honor at all.[/b][/quote]



I don't understand what jewish females gotta do with our American Military awards?

[FryGuy]

Whoa...you guys are out of the loop aren't you?



Jessica Lynch wasn't shot/stabbed/raped/beaten/etc.



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/29/...ain556060.shtml



U.S. Denies POW Rescue Staged



NASIRIYAH, Iraq, May 29, 2003



(CBS) The April 1 rescue of prisoner of war Pfc. Jessica Lynch was a huge morale booster for the United States, and a big propaganda victory ? that much is certain.



The proof is in the grainy night-vision footage of the raid, and the still picture of Lynch in a rescue helicopter with a folded American flag on her chest.



But whether it was a military operation or a photo opportunity depends on whom is asked.



An Associated Press reporter spoke to more than 20 doctors, nurses and other workers at the Iraqi hospital where Lynch had been held.



In interview after interview, the assessment was the same: The dramatics that surrounded Lynch's rescue were unnecessary. Some also said the raid itself was unneeded because they were trying to turn Lynch over, although they conceded they made no attempt to notify U.S. troops of that effort.



"If they had come to the door and asked for Jessica, we would have gladly handed her over to them. There was no need for all that drama," said Dr. Hazem Rikabi, an internist.



Pentagon officials bristle at any suggestion that Lynch's rescue was staged or that any details were exaggerated.



Describing the raid in an April 2 briefing, Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks said the operation had involved " bringing her away from that location of danger, clearing the building of some of the military activity that was in there."



"There was not a fire fight inside of the building, I will tell you, but there were fire fights outside of the building, getting in and getting out," he said.



Later, Brooks added, "Some brave souls put their lives on the line to make this happen; loyal to a creed that they know, that they'll never leave a fallen comrade and never embarrass their country."



U.S. military officers say that the rescuers didn't know Iraqi troops had left Nasariyah General Hospital and that the Americans had to storm in ready to deal with any circumstance.



American military doctrine calls for using overwhelming force in such situations. "We don't want it to be a fair fight," Marine Lt. Col. David Lapan, a Pentagon spokesman, told AP this week. "The fact that we didn't encounter heavy resistance in the hospital was a good thing."



They add that U.S. troops outside the hospital were fired on and that fighting was still going on elsewhere in the southern city, which saw some of the fiercest combat of the war.



"You don't have perfect knowledge when you go in of what resistance you will face, so you prepare for the worst," Lapan said.



Nasariyah was a combat zone and American troops were being attacked by Iraqis dressed in civilian clothes elsewhere in the area, he said. U.S. troops supporting the raid ? though not the rescue team itself ? were fired on from other parts of the hospital compound, Lapan said.



Lynch, an Army supply clerk, was captured March 23 after her convoy was ambushed in Nasariyah three days after the war began.



In the hospital, staffers said, Lynch made friends from around the building with her kind ways and jokes, and employees went out of their way to keep her comfortable.



U.S. officials have said Lynch, who is recovering in a Washington hospital, doesn't remember anything about her capture, and she has not yet commented publicly about her time in Iraq.



A day before Iraqi troops left the hospital, doctors said, the staff received instructions from Nasariyah's governor, Younis Ahmed al-Thareb, to transfer Lynch to the Maternity and Children's Hospital on the other side of the Euphrates River, where American forces were in control.



The governor told them it was for her own safety because he feared the Americans might attack the hospital because Iraqi soldiers were there, al-Jabbar and others said.



But they also said they didn't try to notify U.S. troops of their intention. They said an ambulance carrying Lynch set out at 11:45 p.m., but as it approached the al-Zaytoun Bridge in the darkness it was fired on by American troops and the driver sped back to the hospital.



"The next day, we decided to put her on a donkey cart so she would be in open view of the U.S. soldiers," said Dr. Miqdad al-Khazaei.



But before they could do that, Iraqi forces ? including the regional commander of the Baath Party, Adel Abdallah al-Doori, and the governor ? began pulling out of the hospital and the city, al-Khazaei said. "By noon, they were all gone," he said.



Hours later, the Americans arrived.



The hospital's deputy director, Dr. Khodheir al-Hazbar said heavy explosions sounded at 11:45 p.m.



Less than 30 minutes later, he heard helicopters flying over the hospital. Tanks and armored personnel carriers parked outside. Then he heard loud voices: "Go! Go! Go!"



The commandos burst in.



Al-Jabbar said the soldiers declined an offer of the hospital's master key so they wouldn't have to break down the doors.



"They pointed the gun at us for two hours," he said. "Their manner was very rude. They even handcuffed the director of the hospital. ? Not a single shot was fired at them. They shot at doors ? all doors. They broke them, kicked them open."



Al-Hazbar said he had expected a raid but was surprised by its intensity. He claims the soldiers appeared to be firing blanks, something the military denies and weapons experts contend is highly unlikely.



U.S. officers have said Lynch's rescue was launched after an Iraqi lawyer, Mohammed Odeh al-Rehaief, mapped out her location for U.S. Marines over several days.



Al-Rehaief and his family were moved to the United States for safety, and he has accepted a job with the Livingston Group, a lobbying firm in Washington. Jim Pruitt, an associate of the firm, said Wednesday that al-Rehaief had no comment about the rescue. "When the time comes, Mohammed will tell his story in great detail," Pruitt said.



The former POW's parents said Thursday they are not permitted to discuss details of their daughter's capture and rescue in Iraq.



"It is still an ongoing investigation," Greg Lynch said during a news conference at the family's rural West Virginia home.

[FryGuy]

Or there's this one....

----------------------------------------------------



The truth about Jessica



Her Iraqi guards had long fled, she was being well cared for - and doctors had already tried to free her. John Kampfner discovers the real story behind a modern American war myth

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,276...,956255,00.html



Thursday May 15, 2003

The Guardian



Jessica Lynch became an icon of the war. An all-American heroine, the story of her capture by the Iraqis and her rescue by US special forces became one of the great patriotic moments of the conflict. It couldn't have happened at a more crucial moment, when the talk was of coalition forces bogged down, of a victory too slow in coming.

Her rescue will go down as one of the most stunning pieces of news management yet conceived. It provides a remarkable insight into the real influence of Hollywood producers on the Pentagon's media managers, and has produced a template from which America hopes to present its future wars.



But the American media tactics, culminating in the Lynch episode, infuriated the British, who were supposed to be working alongside them in Doha, Qatar. This Sunday, the BBC's Correspondent programme reveals the inside story of the rescue that may not have been as heroic as portrayed, and of divisions at the heart of the allies' media operation.



"In reality we had two different styles of news media management," says Group Captain Al Lockwood, the British army spokesman at central command. "I feel fortunate to have been part of the UK one."



In the early hours of April 2, correspondents in Doha were summoned from their beds to Centcom, the military and media nerve centre for the war. Jim Wilkinson, the White House's top figure there, had stayed up all night. "We had a situation where there was a lot of hot news," he recalls. "The president had been briefed, as had the secretary of defence."



The journalists rushed in, thinking Saddam had been captured. The story they were told instead has entered American folklore. Private Lynch, a 19-year-old clerk from Palestine, West Virginia, was a member of the US Army's 507th Ordnance Maintenance Company that took a wrong turning near Nassiriya and was ambushed. Nine of her US comrades were killed. Iraqi soldiers took Lynch to the local hospital, which was swarming with fedayeen, where he was held for eight days. That much is uncontested.



Releasing its five-minute film to the networks, the Pentagon claimed that Lynch had stab and bullet wounds, and that she had been slapped about on her hospital bed and interrogated. It was only thanks to a courageous Iraqi lawyer, Mohammed Odeh al-Rehaief, that she was saved. According to the Pentagon, Al-Rehaief risked his life to alert the Americans that Lynch was being held.



Just after midnight, Army Rangers and Navy Seals stormed the Nassiriya hospital. Their "daring" assault on enemy territory was captured by the military's night-vision camera. They were said to have come under fire, but they made it to Lynch and whisked her away by helicopter. That was the message beamed back to viewers within hours of the rescue.



Al-Rehaief was granted asylum barely two weeks after arriving in the US. He is now the toast of Washington, with a fat $500,000 (?309,000) book deal. Rescue in Nassiriya will be published in October. As for Lynch, her status as cult hero is stronger than ever. Internet auction sites have listed at least 10 Jessica Lynch items, ranging from an oil painting with an opening bid of $200 to a $5 "America Loves Jessica Lynch" fridge magnet. Trouble is that doctors now say she has no recollection of the whole episode and probably never will. Her memory loss means that "researchers" have been called in to fill in the gaps.



One story, two versions. The doctors in Nassiriya say they provided the best treatment they could for Lynch in the midst of war. She was assigned the only specialist bed in the hospital, and one of only two nurses on the floor. "I was like a mother to her and she was like a daughter,"says Khalida Shinah.



"We gave her three bottles of blood, two of them from the medical staff because there was no blood at this time,"said Dr Harith al-Houssona, who looked after her throughout her ordeal. "I examined her, I saw she had a broken arm, a broken thigh and a dislocated ankle. Then I did another examination. There was no [sign of] shooting, no bullet inside her body, no stab wound - only RTA, road traffic accident," he recalled. "They want to distort the picture. I don't know why they think there is some benefit in saying she has a bullet injury."



The doctors told us that the day before the special forces swooped on the hospital the Iraqi military had fled. Hassam Hamoud, a waiter at a local restaurant, said he saw the American advance party land in the town. He said the team's Arabic interpreter asked him where the hospital was. "He asked: 'Are there any Fedayeen over there?' and I said, 'No'." All the same, the next day "America's finest warriors" descended on the building.



"We heard the noise of helicopters," says Dr Anmar Uday. He says that they must have known there would be no resistance. "We were surprised. Why do this? There was no military, there were no soldiers in the hospital.



"It was like a Hollywood film. They cried, 'Go, go, go', with guns and blanks and the sound of explosions. They made a show - an action movie like Sylvester Stallone or Jackie Chan, with jumping and shouting, breaking down doors." All the time with the camera rolling. The Americans took no chances, restraining doctors and a patient who was handcuffed to a bed frame.



There was one more twist. Two days before the snatch squad arrived, Al-Houssona had arranged to deliver Jessica to the Americans in an ambulance. "I told her I will try and help you escape to the American Army but I will do this very secretly because I could lose my life." He put her in an ambulance and instructed the driver to go to the American checkpoint. When he was approaching it, the Americans opened fire. They fled just in time back to the hospital. The Americans had almost killed their prize catch.



A military cameraman had shot footage of the rescue. It was a race against time for the video to be edited. The video presentation was ready a few hours after the first brief announcement. When it was shown, General Vincent Brooks, the US spokesman in Doha, declared: "Some brave souls put their lives on the line to make this happen, loyal to a creed that they know that they'll never leave a fallen comrade."



None of the details that the doctors provided Correspondent with made it to the video or to any subsequent explanations or clarifications by US authorities. I asked the Pentagon spokesman in Washington, Bryan Whitman, to release the full tape of the rescue, rather than its edited version, to clear up any discrepancies. He declined. Whitman would not talk about what kind of Iraqi resistance the American forces faced. Nor would he comment on the injuries Lynch actually sustained. "I understand there is some conflicting information out there and in due time the full story will be told, I'm sure," he told me.



That American approach - to skim over the details - focusing instead on the broad message, led to tension behind the scenes with the British. Downing Street's man in Doha, Simon Wren, was furious that on the first few days of the war the Americans refused to give any information at Centcom. The British were put in the difficult position of having to fill in the gaps, off the record.



Towards the end of the conflict, Wren wrote a confidential five-page letter to Alastair Campbell complaining that the American briefers weren't up to the job. He described the Lynch presentation as embarrassing.



Wren yesterday described the Lynch incident as "hugely overblown" and symptomatic of a bigger problem. "The Americans never got out there and explained what was going on in the war," he said. "All they needed to be was open and honest. They were too vague, too scared of engaging with the media." He said US journalists "did not put them under pressure".



Wren, who had been seconded to the Ministry of Defence, said he tried on several occasions to persuade Wilkinson and Brooks to change tack. In London, Campbell did the same with the White House, to no avail. "The American media didn't put them under pressure so they were allowed to get away with it," Wren said. "They didn't feel they needed to change."



He acknowledged that the events surrounding the Lynch "rescue" had become a matter of "conjecture". But he added: "Either way, it was not the main news of the day. This was just one soldier, this was an add-on: human interest stuff. It completely overshadowed other events, things that were actually going on on the battlefield. It overshadowed the fact that the Americans found the bodies of her colleagues. What we wanted to give out was real-time news."



Lockwood told Correspondent:"Having lost the first skirmish, they (the Americans) had pretty much lost the war when it came to media support. Albeit things had got better and everything came to a conclusion quite rapidly, but to my feelings they lost their initial part of the campaign and never got on the front foot again," Lockwood said. "The media adviser we had here [Wren] was an expert in his field. His counterpart on the US side [Wilkinson] was evasive and was not around as much as he should have been when it came to talking to the media."



The American strategy was to concentrate on the visuals and to get a broad message out. Details - where helpful - followed behind. The key was to ensure the right television footage. The embedded reporters could do some of that. On other missions, the military used their own cameras, editing the film themselves and presenting it to broadcasters as ready-to-go pack ages. The Pentagon had been influenced by Hollywood producers of reality TV and action movies, notably Black Hawk Down.



Back in 2001, the man behind Black Hawk Down, Jerry Bruckheimer, had visited the Pentagon to pitch an idea. Bruckheimer and fellow producer Bertram van Munster, who masterminded the reality show Cops, suggested Profiles from the Front Line, a primetime television series following US forces in Afghanistan. They were after human stories told through the eyes of the soldiers. Van Munster's aim was to get close and personal. He said: "You can only get accepted by these people through chemistry. You have to have a bond with somebody. Only then will they let you in. What these guys are doing out there, these men and women, is just extraordinary. If you're a cheerleader of our point of view - that we deserve peace and that we deal with human dignity - then these guys are really going out on a limb and risking their own lives."



It was perfect reality TV, made with the active cooperation of Donald Rumsfeld and aired just before the Iraqi war. The Pentagon liked what it saw. "What Profiles does is given another in depth look at what forces are doing from the ground," says Whitman. "It provides a very human look at challenges that are presented when you are dealing in these very difficult situations." That approached was taken on and developed on the field of battle in Iraq.



The Pentagon has none of the British misgivings about its media operation. It is convinced that what worked with Jessica Lynch and with other episodes of this war will work even better in the future.



? War Spin, presented by John Kampfner and produced by Sandy Smith, is on BBC2 on Sunday at 7.15pm.

[The Brillo Pad of Agony]

OMGZ FRYGUY HOW CAN U BELEIVE THAT LEFTIST PROPAGANRDA!?



Joking aside, good post. I like the news you dig up.

[mistical16]

yeah i think she should be reconized deffinetly but shes not the only soldier in the world who has been through what she has and they have gotten far less recognition.thats one thing i do hate about the news and stuff is like when someone is kidnapped they take the story and run with it ,dont get me wrong i think people should do everything they can but the person they are talking about it not the only person that is going through the same thing.sorry if none of this makes since but im glad to get it off my chest because its been buggin me for awhile now.

[FryGuy]

Originally posted by Sam+Jul 23 2003, 10:42 PM--<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'<tr<tdQUOTE (Sam @ Jul 23 2003, 10:42 PM)</td</tr<tr<td id='QUOTE'She fought for her country. She risked her life to help other people. [/b]

If you join the military, THAT'S YOUR JOB!

Originally posted by Sam@Jul 23 2003, 10:42 PM

She was tortured so bad.

By who? The people in the hospital she was in took great care of her and actually became friends with her.

Originally posted by Sam@Jul 23 2003, 10:42 PM

She had alot of bones in her body broken and she was raped. She almost died.

Any broken bones were caused by the accident she was in, her vehicle wrecked. She didn't almost die, she was hurt, but not that bad. Not even the news said she was raped, it sounds like you're making shit up.



<!--QuoteBegin-Sam@Jul 23 2003, 10:42 PM

She deserves the parades. She is a hero.[/quote]

For what? Getting lost, going to the hospital, getting picked up? If thats grounds for parades and being a hero I have a few friends that deserve parades and are heros. Though my friends got drunk, got lost, fell down a hill, woke up in the hospital, then picked up by their parents. Does that mean they need parades?

[daffodildreams]

Didn't she get run over by her own truck?

[TimeMachine9906]

i think that was someone else in the feild. i know what your talking about my First sgt told me about it, but it wasnt Lynch.

[The Brillo Pad of Agony]

Originally posted by fruitloop@Jul 24 2003, 11:13 PM

Didn't she get run over by her own truck?

I knew women drivers were bad, but that just takes the piss.

[daffodildreams]

It was Jessica who was run over by her truck, they found out that the whole thing was just an elaborated story. The Iraqi's didn't do a thing to her.

[topace]