Heaven?

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SirPostAlot
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Heaven?

Post by SirPostAlot » Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:57 pm

Just curious...i always screw up the catholic/chrisitian thing so i listed both :P



Newsweek did a poll on this and i read it and shockingly 91% of catholic/chrisitans said that they believe a non-believer or a believer of a different faith will be saved if heaven ended up exsisting after death...

i found that quite shocking...



personally i am not catholic/christian but if heaven does exsist, i believe people will be saved based on their quality of goodness...



~Jeff~

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!XogFog
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Re: Heaven?

Post by !XogFog » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:27 pm

Agreed. People may spend some time in a corrective/reflective place after death before going to heaven, but it would take someone utterly unrepentant (including after death as well) to actually not get into heaven after learning their lesson after death.
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)



The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)

The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)



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Re: Heaven?

Post by turtbub » Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:51 pm

I'm a Christian and I said no. If I'm understanding the question right you're asking if good people, people who are overall decent, but who aren't of my faith will be in Heaven (in my opinion), right?



Definitely not.



Sadly, you can only get into Heaven through Jesus Christ and his blood, trusting on him, etc. So anyone who doesn't will go to Hell. In my beliefs.
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." Confucius



Romans 5:8 "God demonstrates His own love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."



"If you judge people, you have no time to love them." Mother Theresa



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Rose'nShannenRox
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Re: Heaven?

Post by Rose'nShannenRox » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:59 pm

I am christian and i say no. You arnt saved by works (althought a a very good thing), it is by your faith in Jesus that you can get into heaven. You can be the most decent and moral and nice person around, but if you don't believe in Jesus, and what he did for us....then no, I dont believe you can get into heaven.
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...



My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.



I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!



-African pastor in Zimbabwe

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yoaliens3000
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Re: Heaven?

Post by yoaliens3000 » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:42 pm

Yes, I think a person who has lived a good life will go to heaven. To show our love for jesus, we have to be kind and love one another. So if people just live a good life, they are technically living out jesus's love. They deserve heaven. But I assume, they will probably spent some time in purgatory.



I find it funny that you find it shocking. So jeff, time for doing away with your negative attitude toward people of faith?

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Re: Heaven?

Post by A! Elbereth » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:11 pm

No one deserves heaven. Because we are all sinners. Heaven is a sinless place. That is why we have JESUS who washes away the sins of those who believe in him and ask it of him.



To be in heaven, you must have all your sins washed away.



I know it's a sad thing, but that's the way of it. If one can't accept it, then they don't have to.
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Keep it Purified.



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Re: Heaven?

Post by SirPostAlot » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:06 pm

its not that i have disrepsect for people of faith, but when i go to church the priest puts it into perspective that people who do not have faith are bad people and, as Rose'nShannenRox and turtbulb said, they will not strive to heaven if it does happen to exist...



~Jeff~

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Re: Heaven?

Post by A! Elbereth » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:17 pm

Well no you aren't a bad person. You are a good person.



But you must think of Heaven as a priveledge... there's always a specific thing you must do and maintain to get said priveledge and it can always be taken away. In this case, you must obey the laws of the Bible or this priveledge will be taken from you until you straighten things out with God/Jesus again.



Let's say heaven does exist. Well, that would make the Bible true, which in turn makes it true that you need Jesus to enter heaven. Just like the rules of keeping a priveledge, you can't abide by some rules and forget about the others. Everything is connected and essential.
Your soul.

Your body.

Your mind.


Keep it Purified.



But give me love over, love over, love over this... ~Coldplay



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Dr. Wilson:
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Rose'nShannenRox
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Re: Heaven?

Post by Rose'nShannenRox » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:45 pm

Originally posted by SirPostAlot@Sep 5 2005, 08:06 PM

its not that i have disrepsect for people of faith, but when i go to church the priest puts it into perspective that people who do not have faith are bad people and, as Rose'nShannenRox and turtbulb said, they will not strive to heaven if it does happen to exist...



~Jeff~

[right][/right]

did we say anything about the people being bad? No we said that no matter how good you are, you can't get into heaven unless you believe....the bible says it loud and clear.
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...



My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.



I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!



-African pastor in Zimbabwe

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LilyMaid
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Re: Heaven?

Post by LilyMaid » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:04 pm

I am not a Christian. However, if a Christian heaven did exist, I firmly believe that non-Christians who have lived good lives would find a 'place' in heaven. Similarly, I believe that humanitarian Christians would be lovingly accepted by a non-Christian God. I cannot believe that an omnipotent, benevolent God would reject a compassionate man (a man who, as yoaliens said, lived out Jesus' love) because he did not believe in the Christian God.
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Re: Heaven?

Post by A! Elbereth » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:21 pm

This is how new religions are formed. A group of people who want to change something about one religion come together to slap a new name on the same religion except it has a few essential things excluded from the old one.



Earthly conceptions are all about the gray in between, while with christianity there is not supposed to be a gray area. Only black and white.. but now that there are so many different denominations the gray area is made possible. DESPITE that it's made up and originally it didn't exist.



Believe in the gray areas if you like. It's okay with me.
Your soul.

Your body.

Your mind.


Keep it Purified.



But give me love over, love over, love over this... ~Coldplay



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Dr. Wilson:
I forgot I needed a reason to give a crap.

Dr. House: You're actually giving two craps.

Dr. Wilson: The metric system always confused me.

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Re: Heaven?

Post by !XogFog » Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:14 am

Originally posted by A! Elbereth+Sep 5 2005, 06:17 PM--
[/right]

[/b]
Okay, that's where we disagree. My Bible says nothing about Jesus, which is why I picked the "not Christian, non-members can go to heaven."


Originally posted by A! Elbereth@Sep 5 2005, 08:21 PM

This is how new religions are formed. A group of people who want to change something about one religion come together to slap a new name on the same religion except it has a few essential things excluded from the old one.[right][/right]



I agree. Which is why I'm sticking to the original religion, and hence my above answer.
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)



The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)

The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)



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!XogFog
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Re: Heaven?

Post by !XogFog » Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:16 am

Delete.
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)



The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)

The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)



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A! Elbereth
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Re: Heaven?

Post by A! Elbereth » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:08 pm

Originally posted by A! Elbereth+Sep 5 2005, 06:17 PM--
[/right]

<!--QuoteBegin-!XogFog[/i]@Sep 6 2005, 12:14 AM



Okay, that's where we disagree. My Bible says nothing about Jesus, which is why I picked the "not Christian, non-members can go to heaven."

[/b][/quote]



Romans 10:9 - "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."



John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son, so that whoever believes in Him will not die, but have eternal life."



Ephesians 2:8,9 - "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast."
Your soul.

Your body.

Your mind.


Keep it Purified.



But give me love over, love over, love over this... ~Coldplay



Image



Dr. Wilson:
I forgot I needed a reason to give a crap.

Dr. House: You're actually giving two craps.

Dr. Wilson: The metric system always confused me.

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Re: Heaven?

Post by !XogFog » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:55 pm

Originally posted by A! Elbereth+Sep 6 2005, 02:08 PM--
[/right]

<!--QuoteBegin-!XogFog[/i]@Sep 6 2005, 12:14 AM



Okay, that's where we disagree. My Bible says nothing about Jesus, which is why I picked the "not Christian, non-members can go to heaven."

[/b][/quote]



Romans 10:9 - "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."



John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son, so that whoever believes in Him will not die, but have eternal life."



Ephesians 2:8,9 - "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast."

[right][/right]

[/b][/quote]



Right. That stuff's not in my Bible.
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)



The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)

The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)



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_ofunsoundmind
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Re: Heaven?

Post by _ofunsoundmind » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:25 pm

The Bible says SPECIFICALLY that works cannot get you into Heaven. Only your faith in Jesus Christ can do that. So my answer is that I am a Christian (not Catholic), and I don't believe you can get into Heaven without believing in Jesus.



But more specifically, why won't good works get us into Heaven, you ask?


This is the problem of sin. Everyone has done wrong, so none of us are able to stand before God on our own merits. But God loves us enough that he took it upon himself to solve this problem: in the person of Jesus Christ, he bore the punishment for all our sins, enabling him to offer us forgiveness. And God's forgiveness removes the sins of comission and omission that prevented us from being perfectly righteous, so that we may enter heaven and be in the presence of God.



Thus, even someone that we would call a "good person" can't enter heaven on their own merits, but only by accepting God's grace offered through Christ. Those who reject Christ are rejecting God's forgiveness for their sins, so their sin still prevents them from entering heaven and still merits punishment.



Please read: http://faithfacts.gospelcom.net//quest_good_life.html



x Shelle
Ethan Riley Winters

born the 16th of August, 2002

weighing 7 pounds and 9 ounces



^ Our gift from God ^



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Re: Heaven?

Post by yoaliens3000 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:26 pm

In my opinion those dont say anything about non believers. Ive always been taught that God has mercy for everyone. Even non believers. If we go by your qualifications for heaven. Does that mean that aborted babies and young children who never had the chance to choose jesus dont go to heaven?

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Re: Heaven?

Post by Rose'nShannenRox » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:56 pm

Originally posted by yoaliens3000@Sep 6 2005, 06:26 PM

In my opinion those dont say anything about non believers. Ive always been taught that God has mercy for everyone. Even non believers. If we go by your qualifications for heaven. Does that mean that aborted babies and young children who never had the chance to choose jesus dont go to heaven?

[right][/right]

well in the bible...i dont knwo the specific verse off top of my head, but something that mentions when they rach the age of a accountability, probably when they realize right from wrong, then they can be held accountable otehrwise...but since im not God, i don't know where they go....but since God is just, i dont see why he wouldnt let them into heaven....but hey, again, im not him
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...



My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.



I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!



-African pastor in Zimbabwe

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Re: Heaven?

Post by Rose'nShannenRox » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:58 pm

Originally posted by !XogFog@Sep 6 2005, 04:55 PM

Right. That stuff's not in my Bible.

[right][/right]

so what bible do you use?
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...



My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.



I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!



-African pastor in Zimbabwe

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A! Elbereth
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Re: Heaven?

Post by A! Elbereth » Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:29 pm

Yes, I'm wondering the same thing...



Oh I see now. You only believe in the Old Testament, is that it? Why is that?
Your soul.

Your body.

Your mind.


Keep it Purified.



But give me love over, love over, love over this... ~Coldplay



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Dr. Wilson:
I forgot I needed a reason to give a crap.

Dr. House: You're actually giving two craps.

Dr. Wilson: The metric system always confused me.

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