Narth

[WhOaMi?]

Has anyone else ever heard of them???....they believe that being gay.bi is a choice and that anyone who chooses to be this way or claim to be this way is sick and wrong....they also say that homosexuality is a mental disorder....thier website is http://www.narth.com ......just wanted to share this with you all and see what you thought...



Seven Things I Wish

Pro-Gay People Would Admit

By Bob Davies

Exodus International, an Ex-Gay Ministry







1. I wish they would admit that many people are not happy with their homosexuality or lesbianism, and that this conflict is internal, based on legitimate, intelligent religious and moral convictions--not just the result of a so-called "homophobic" society which is forcing guilt upon people who don't conform to a heterosexual ethic.



Stop throwing out the cheap, inaccurate labels like "internalized homophobia" to explain our motivations.



2. I wish they would acknowledge that homosexuals and lesbians can experience significant change in their sexual feelings and desires, even though they may never be totally heterosexual in their sexual thoughts and feelings.



Be honest enough to admit that such change is significant and genuine, even if it isn't complete.



3. I wish they would acknowledge that many former homosexuals and lesbians have found a greater measure of peace and satisfaction after leaving a gay or lesbian lifestyle than they ever experienced while embracing homosexuality.



Not all "ex-gays" are miserable, plotting how to secretly fulfill their homosexual lusts without being caught.



4. I wish they would acknowledge that many former homosexuals and lesbians have genuine joy in their marriages.



Most former gays and lesbians don't get married in a futile attempt to "escape" homosexuality; they marry as a natural consequence of resolving that issue in their lives.



5. I wish they would acknowledge that all people have as much right to pursue a heterosexual lifestyle as they do to pursue homosexuality.



Former homosexuals and lesbians should not be harassed and castigated by the gay community. But I have never heard any gay or lesbian leaders speak out against the violence (such as bomb threats and physical/verbal abuse) which some people perpetuate against Exodus ministries.



6. I wish they would stop equating our decision to leave homosexuality with "hatred" and "bigotry" against gays and lesbians.



We don't hate gays; we simply desire to live free of homosexuality. Don't put nasty labels upon our motives. That's being judgmental and unfair.



7. I wish pro-gay religious leaders would admit that their endorsement and promotion of monogamous homosexual relationships is a facade.



Many--probably most--men and women involved in long-term partnerships are not sexually monogamous, but gay churches don't discipline members for committing "adultery" outside their "gay marriage." Neither do they discipline gays or lesbians who have sex before entering into a "holy union" with their partner.



Bob Davies is past President of Exodus International and an ex-gay himself. He has been married for nine years.









^

that is an article from the website.....wow...

[Jaegermeister]

I wish they would stop pretending that homosexuality was a choice.

[Saren]

These are people with nothing better to do with their time, but to try and over-analyze everything. Trying to force others to believe that they're right, when they say that we're the ones forcing things ourselves.

Oigh. Society. Unfortunately, it makes me embarrassed to think people have come to this.

[SirPostAlot]

i wish it would be over the choice decision, but this just shows the importance of the scientific research ~ to show that it isn't a choice . . .



***PINNED***



~jeff

[CanadaCraig]

Hi WhOaMi?



I appreciate the link.



While 'there' [at the NARTH site] I read an article that I could REALLY relate to. Especially the part about how some gay guys relate to woman and the relationship they had with their mother.



You [and others] can click on THIS to read it - if you like.



Unlike most HT members - I've been dealing with MY sexual orientation issues for decades. Much longer than most HT members have been alive. That's a long time. And to be very honest - I'm not a happy person. And I'm also not convinced that 'happiness' [for ME] is just a matter of finding the 'right GUY'. [Although I did believe that - at one time] Of all the gay guys I've known in my life - most [and I do mean most] are stuck in 'search mode'. Convinced that ONE DAY their 'prince will come'. That's not a good way to live. In fact - it stinks. For ME - my desire to be with a guy [I'm all but convinced] stems from my desire to feel more masculine - more connected to myself. It's why I have no desire [as of yet] to be intimate [sexually or otherwise] with a woman. A woman can't make ME feel more like a man. It's also why I'm extremely intimidated by women. The fear being that the more intimate I am with 'her' - the more of myself I lose. [Which is something the article I linked you to talks about] But I do often feel that I'd like to be straight and am very seriously looking into just how one does change their orientation. [AND IF that's even possible] Besides - I'm really turned OFF by the idea of one day being an 80 year old man in tight jeans trying to turn on some cute 60 year old guy.



That said - I refuse to believe that sexual orientation is something a person is born with. There are just far too many variables that one can go through in life that could effect one's orientation for me to embrace the 'born gay' idea. I don't believe that one 'chooses' to be gay any more than one 'chooses' to have brown hair. But our emotional side is far easier to manipulate [change] than is our physical side. [The colour of our hair or eyes, etc.] So perhaps one CAN change who it is they are emotionally, physically and sexually attracted to. I don't know yet. But when I find out - I'll let you know.



It's always best to keep an open mind - don't you think?! Especially if where you ARE is NOT making your life better.



GREAT BIG HUG

Craig!!

[Paris In Flames]

Hi WhOaMi?



I appreciate the link.



While 'there' [at the NARTH site] I read an article that I could REALLY relate to. Especially the part about how some gay guys relate to woman and the relationship they had with their mother.



You [and others] can click on THIS to read it - if you like.



Unlike most HT members - I've been dealing with MY sexual orientation issues for decades. Much longer than most HT members have been alive. That's a long time. And to be very honest - I'm not a happy person. And I'm also not convinced that 'happiness' [for ME] is just a matter of finding the 'right GUY'. [Although I did believe that - at one time] Of all the gay guys I've known in my life - most [and I do mean most] are stuck in 'search mode'. Convinced that ONE DAY their 'prince will come'. That's not a good way to live. In fact - it stinks. For ME - my desire to be with a guy [I'm all but convinced] stems from my desire to feel more masculine - more connected to myself. It's why I have no desire [as of yet] to be intimate [sexually or otherwise] with a woman. A woman can't make ME feel more like a man. It's also why I'm extremely intimidated by women. The fear being that the more intimate I am with 'her' - the more of myself I lose. [Which is something the article I linked you to talks about] But I do often feel that I'd like to be straight and am very seriously looking into just how one does change their orientation. [AND IF that's even possible] Besides - I'm really turned OFF by the idea of one day being an 80 year old man in tight jeans trying to turn on some cute 60 year old guy.



That said - I refuse to believe that sexual orientation is something a person is born with. There are just far too many variables that one can go through in life that could effect one's orientation for me to embrace the 'born gay' idea. I don't believe that one 'chooses' to be gay any more than one 'chooses' to have brown hair. But our emotional side is far easier to manipulate [change] than is our physical side. [The colour of our hair or eyes, etc.] So perhaps one CAN change who it is they are emotionally, physically and sexually attracted to. I don't know yet. But when I find out - I'll let you know.



It's always best to keep an open mind - don't you think?! Especially if where you ARE is NOT making your life better.



GREAT BIG HUG

Craig!!

[/b]

Craig, I'm horrified to read this, esepcially coming from an older gay man and this is a site for teenagers who are discovering themselves. Not only does this not support their feelings, but they are at a time when they do not KNOW what they want. Do you hoestly belive that all those girls out there are bisexual because they DECIDED to be? And then they all go be and with men because they were like, "oh goshh, I was just trying to turn my boyfriend on."



How CAN you say that you are not born gay? When did you start noticing boys? When you were six? Seven? Eight? Are you saying that you're gay because when you were seven years old, you were scared of girls and needed to feel more masculine?!



I think NO variable can change what FEELS right. Biologically, we are turned on by certain genders. Making out with a boy is fucking gross and it does not turn me on, no matter how attractive he is, how feminine he is, how muscular or lack thereof. I am not attracted to him.



Also, we are attracted to different people emotionally. Tell me you've fallen in love with boys are not girls. Because we're all different. Just because I had a traumatic childhook experience cannot biologially change who I am. You're like discussing and physical change and a chemical change and implying that sexual orientation can just change.



I'm sad to hear that. I'm also sad to hear that you blame you being gay because you cannot find the right person. I'm sorry you don't have a very active dating life and you're afraid of women - but that is something that is wrong with you emotionally and pshycologically and not because you're gay.



I am gay and perfectly capable of getting along with boys and girls.



Cheers,



Jenna

[SirPostAlot]

I agree w/ jenna ~ though i can see your point, craig...

personally i get along much better w/ females ~ they understand me more, they are more open, and they are more interesting to me...

but i enjoy being around guys, too, but for me i may in that "Search mode" but i know the type of guy i want...

i am not one to go to clubs searching for guys - but i feel when i am ready to accept a guy into my life i will...

as for now i am happy being friends w/ the females though i am not intimate (nor desire to be) w/ them...

From what you are saying, i would lbe attracted to females b/c males do intimidate me and i have more in common w/ females...

but since i was born gay, i cannot choose who or what i am attracted to, you know??



~Jeff~

[FranklinF]

lol i bet the leaders of that group are gay, i mean they deny it to the point they ruin other peoples happy lives. what asses

[WhOaMi?]

everything would be so much easier if being gay/bi was choice, if it was i dont know why anyoen would have started choosing to be gay....

[hopeless_]

I personally stopped asking myself why and how I'm gay. Fact is, I cannot change. Not consciously, even wanting it. When I pin-pointed what I was feeling, when I found a word for my orientation, I was shocked because I found out when the pope was condemning the gay community from having their gay pride and going to church and whatnot (btw I do not condone nor support obnoxious, disgusting and moronic 'LOOK AT ME, I'M GAY, WOOHOO, ACCEPT ME'-parades). I hated myself, and being in a religious household, I found out that you COULD change being gay, (and I quote 'otherwise you go to hell'). Apparently the deal was that I had to pray to God for change. I prayed and begged god every night for 5 years to change me. I truly wanted to change.



As of today, the only thing I've gained from it is self-loathing and pity. Are these bastards telling me I didn't want it enough? That years of being in the closet, denying part of indentity and willing to sacrifice anything to change, just wasn't enough?

Sure they say, 'ofcourse you didn't choose, but it doesn't mean you can't change'. Are you freaking kidding me? What does it take? Shock-therapy, combined with some public statement and humiliation?

Give me a break and let me live. I pity anyone who wastes their time researching whether you can change sexual orientation or not. I couldn't care less if the tooth-fairy is responsible for turning people gay. It's done, and I know in my heart that no matter how hard I try or want to, I cannot change.

Want to judge me? Be my guest, because no critiscism can be as harsh and brutal as the one that I have on myself, and I have all those pricks in the world to thank for that.



Also this got really long and full anger, I apologise in advance. I'm a cranky bitch today

[SirPostAlot]

everything would be so much easier if being gay/bi was choice, if it was i dont know why anyoen would have started choosing to be gay....

[/b]

Well if being gay/bi was a choice, as you said, no one would be it...

people choose things that will help them through life - and choosing to be gay isn't practicle b/c it draws negative attention to oneself and discriminates them in numerous fashions...



you know?

so yeah i don't think anyone would choose to be gay - just like i can't just say "okay i choose to be straight" though i know life would be easier, it is not who i am ~ and the fact that the straights aren't gay (naturally - or in the all-choice-world) would mean they wouldn't change just to choose nor would they change b/c they would be despised more ...



~Jeff~

[SirPostAlot]

Due to the new pinning agreements - i'll unpin this post (though the topic will appear in the "Important Topic/Issues" pinned topic with a direct link)



*Unpinned*



~Jeff~