What If......

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xxwhereisfredxx
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Re: What If......

Post by xxwhereisfredxx » Sun Jan 26, 2003 12:45 am

didn't u read my post...?? go read it...doesn't that answer your question?!?! lol well thats if you can UNDERSTAND it...hahaha!
When I hear somebody sigh that Life is hard, I am always tempted to ask, Compared to what?

If we did the things we are capable of, we would astound ourselves.

Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it.


You see things; and you say Why? But I dream things that never were; and I say Why not?

It is a hard matter, my fellow citizens, to argue with the belly, since it has no ears.

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poogi
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Re: What If......

Post by poogi » Sun Jan 26, 2003 1:19 am

Originally posted by helencwatters@Jan 25 2003, 10:05 PM

I'll be happy to burn in the fires of hell for eternity/be reincarnated as a dung beetle if I am wrong for being an atheist.



:)



Helen


I agree.



If God would create me only to burn in hell for eternity(he would know that I was going to hell, otherwise he wouldn't be God, would he?), then he can fuck off(no offense meant by this).
What did moths bump into before the electric light bulb was invented?

Boy, the lightbulb really screwed the moth up didn't it? Are there moths

on their way to the sun now going, "It's gonna be worth it!" - Bill Hicks

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Re: What If......

Post by Nj » Sun Jan 26, 2003 1:36 am

I stongly suggest you abstain from saying fuck in any religous topic, it could be mis-construed as a violation of the rules. Thanks Muchly in advance.
--nj




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CanadaCraig
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Re: What If......

Post by CanadaCraig » Sun Jan 26, 2003 8:13 am

"It takes FAR MORE COURAGE to be KIND than it does to be CRUEL!!"

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She
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Re: What If......

Post by She » Sun Jan 26, 2003 9:56 am

That's why I try and keep out of it. Just because Christianity is the religion I was raised around doesn't mean it's the right one, and the only reason I have to draw this conclusion is because it's the religion I'm most exposed to. The majority of the world's like Muslim or something... I'd hate to think they're going to hell.



Furthermore, if you look at Christianity on whole there's some stuff that's in my opinion pretty 'out there'. It's no more rational than any of the old religions that were once dominant (paganism, for example). It would stand to reason that the older religions are more likely to be correct as well, because the closer you are to the beginning of the world the more likely it is that you know something about it. Or.. something like that. It just doesn't make much sense to me to pick Christianity just because. Besides, for all we know Jesus was just some cult leader way back when who went crazy and thought he was the son of God. Not saying this is true, but... you can never be absolutely sure, you know?



There are miracles out of Christianity, but there are miracles out of other religions. I mean, ask any Wiccan or Pagan, they perform spells and stuff and those can work. That doesn't mean one religion has to be right.



(note to the mods: while this isn't strictly on topic, I think deleting it would be somewhat pointless, seeing as how I'm attempting to allow for and facillitate discussion over the topic and expand the topic into a discussion.)
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven: a time to be born and a time to die, time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain, a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace."

--Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

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Re: What If......

Post by CanadaCraig » Sun Jan 26, 2003 11:13 am

Originally posted by me & my life@Jan 26 2003, 06:10 AM

It just seems that if you become a christian its really easy to do .... and that youv been chosen to become one. i need help on becoming one.


Hi Pearl!! :)



I hope you're OK.



For ME - believing in God and Jesus, etc. [becoming a 'Christian'] was NOT easy at all. Even though my grandfather was a United Church minister - he was also an ice-cube!! In other words - he had no 'warmth' at all. In fact - when I think of it - the biggest stumbling blocks to MY faith in God have almost always been OTHER so-called 'Christians'. A lot of people who SAY they are 'Christians' are not very nice people. [in fact - some of 'them' are horrible people] They USE God in order to bully other people and they treat the Bible [so it seems] as though it were a weapon. [some 'thing' to attack people with] Many years ago - I decided that I must do my best to STOP giving 'those' people the power to decide FOR ME what sort of relationship [if any] I was going to have with God.



Something that helped make it easier for me to believe in God and Jesus was something I created myself. We are often told [in Christian churches - at least] that there is but one way to God and that is through His Son Jesus Christ. I believe that - but I always add something to it. Even though there may be but one way to God - there are as many ways to Jesus as there are people. Although that's not specifically written in the Bible - I believe it to be true. For the longest time I thought that I had to be exactly like someone ELSE in order to have the 'right' to think of myself as a 'Christian'. I'd often see people sitting in church [on TV - mostly] who were waving their arms in the air and jumping up and down, etc. Well.... that's not ME. I'm not a 'jump up and down' kinda person. So I thought - for the longest time - that THEY were closer to God than I was. I now realize that THAT is nonsense - but it took a long time for me to see that. [and to believe it] God didn't create ME [or you - for that matter] to be just like someone ELSE. He created you and me to BE you and me. I can't be just like YOU anymore than YOU can be just like ME. [and that's great - the world doesn't need 2 of YOU anymore than it needs 2 of ME!!]



Be patient with yourself. God made a promise. He said that anyone who seeks Him - will find Him. Take some time - each day - to be quiet and still. Allow yourself to hear God talk to your heart. Eventually - he will. Sure - it most likely won't be an actual voice - but perhaps a unique sensation that you can't mistake for anything other than God.



Did that help??



I hope so.



[please keep in mind - all I'm doing is giving you my opinion]



GREAT BIG HUG

Craig!! :)
"It takes FAR MORE COURAGE to be KIND than it does to be CRUEL!!"

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*mel*
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Re: What If......

Post by *mel* » Sun Jan 26, 2003 7:34 pm

Like I said earlier Craig! You are soo smart!!! (or at least sound like it...lol) :D

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Re: What If......

Post by Nj » Mon Jan 27, 2003 4:29 am

Self Interpritation of religion is one of the greatest ideas, If you see the bible how you would like, then you won't have to question it as often. I know some will disagree and say you have to follow it the way they do, and that just goes to show you how wrong the religous groups at a mass can be. For example, some (of my religion) say my religous beliefs are wrong, however, these beliefs have existed long before they "started" with my religion and will outlive their beliefs (they just converted). So to make my point, if you believe individually that other people aren't necessarily wrong for their conflicting beliefs, you won't "go to hell." God is supposed (keyword there: supposed, which isn't always the case in some people's minds) to be somebody/thing you have a loving relationship with..

::you can stop reading now, I made my point::

Furthermore, a loving relationship and or love can be defined in to ways, family love (the kind you hopefully don't have sexual urges with) or partner love (the sex one). I'd hope you'd have family love with god, and therfor like with your family, you disagree, but do you stop loving eachother? no, not necessarily.. Unless, you do something extremly horrible and then sometimes relationships end (hell?) and sometimes you can be forgiven... Get what i'm saying, YOU make YOUR relationship with god, not others...



now i'm dizzy from thinking too much, lol... :wacko:
--nj




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Re: What If......

Post by She » Mon Jan 27, 2003 12:57 pm

Somewhat.



I often think that there is no right religion, and that there is simply an all-encompassing pool of energy that is all faiths. You put prayer and worship and other forms of energy in and it will return it to you. Hence miracles, spells, et cetera.



Or perhaps there's a bunch of Gods sitting around up there and whichever one we pick (or picks us) is the one that handles our souls when we die or whatever.

... Or something.
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven: a time to be born and a time to die, time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain, a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace."

--Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

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Re: What If......

Post by ice_princess » Mon Jan 27, 2003 4:23 pm

relegion is not a fair thing.

though, i know that technicly others who belive in 1 god and not the christian way to worship it, don't go to hell.

and i know that by the muslim belive, people who r being told that they will go to hell if they won't convert thier relegion, and if eventually they won't, so they will go to hell
"The hardest thing in this world is to live in it." - buffy ann summers

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Re: What If......

Post by Dots » Mon Jan 27, 2003 5:00 pm


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*mel*
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Re: What If......

Post by *mel* » Mon Jan 27, 2003 5:03 pm

Helen, what is the whole creationist thing about? If they are Christians, wouldn't they go by the "Holy Bible" If they are going by the Holy Bible, then the world was made in seven days. Can you explain this creationist thing to me???? Or anyone else?

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Re: What If......

Post by *mel* » Mon Jan 27, 2003 7:29 pm

oh,,,opps.. I miss read that last post about the creationist. What I don't get is why are there so many denominations of Christianity???? I mean, we all believe in God, and the same bible...so why not unite as one....ya know what I mean??? instead of having Methodist, baptist, UCC, lutheran, and soo on! Duh! That seems dumb to me!! anyone else?

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Re: What If......

Post by Nj » Mon Jan 27, 2003 7:35 pm

Lutherans and Protestants where formed after Luther and some other dude where pissed because the catholic church sold god's forgiveness, in recent times they have found eachother closer to the catholic church, and methodists, etc.. Have different "rituals" then the catholic church, EG: Methodists only eat Christ 4 times a year, Catholics do it Sunday.. And it also has to do with money.....
--nj




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Re: What If......

Post by itsme » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:14 pm

um i might have a diff perspective on this then other ppl. i think there is only one god. and that god gives every1 a chance to get to know him. it says in the bible that he only works for the best of people. u might at times not think hes fair at times but he really even gives the ppl who worsip other gods a chance to get to know him. if they dont want to then thats their problem. i think it unfair to god that we dont follow him. u guys might not beleive in god. but to me he created the world, hes done everything for us, i think were not being fair by trusting him and following him. thats all he wants. some ppl wonder y he would want a relationship with us in the first place. but its the same reason y a mother would have a baby. she wants wome1 to love, someone who would love her back. this is just my opinion. im sure ill get some criticism from u guys but u guys can say w/e ya want. it wont chnge what i think. im not too sure thats what the guy who made this topic wanted but thats what i thought he was asking. explain to me what u mean if thats not what u were asking.
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Dots
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Re: What If......

Post by Dots » Tue Jan 28, 2003 2:11 pm

Humanism is the belief that Human beings either can perceive or have the ability to percieve [advancements in thought] everything - emotion, philosophy, etc. ---> Basically that Humans are the highest part of existance. There's nothing beyond what we understand, basically... According to most religions, God, being all powerful, eliminates the value of EVERYTHING. Nothing that we understand means ANYTHING because it can all be changed according to what he/she/it decides.



I am not humanist in faith, but I am in thought. God is just like us, because I believe that WE are existance; not just some gerbils in a bucket. In my mind, God makes mistakes [ I forgive him, usually], he has emotions [he's hurt, confused, happy, blah], etc. ---> That explains a lot to me...why people are in pain and stuff b/c God's not perfect; but I accept him for that. He's a cool bud! It is more of a personal relationship when you can just sit down and talk to him as a normal friend, rather than worrying what he understands that you don't. Also lets me understand why God lets war happen, as you asked.



Most Christians are humanists in denial. No offense, but an example would be "itsme." She claims that God created life on earth so he had someone to love and to love him back ---> That is interpreted by a human being! If God is almighty, he could exist without even the ideals of love, or perhaps he would exist with the ideals of something else; or without ideals! Just because humans need love - God might not even really care what love is! Or what really caring is! - God's power means that NOTHING matters, unless you're looking at the world through humanist thought.



You can be a Christian without believing any of that snuff. Being a Christian simply means that you believe Jesus was the Christ (Greek) or Messiah. Most Christian faiths admit that Adam/Eve, 7 Days, etc. are myths used to explain virtues anyway.

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Re: What If......

Post by poogi » Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:48 pm

What did moths bump into before the electric light bulb was invented?

Boy, the lightbulb really screwed the moth up didn't it? Are there moths

on their way to the sun now going, "It's gonna be worth it!" - Bill Hicks

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Re: What If......

Post by Nj » Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:58 pm

And the fact that they took out they years when jesus was smoking the gonge....



I feel that in any religion there are going to be inconsistancies, this comes from everybody making it up as they go along.. and I know half of you are going to say "it was a message from god." But what if, just maybe the possibility that there is no god? And you just die. Maybe that would teach some people to appreciate life more.



*mel* - You need not worry about the people who don't worship your god, the fact that they believe in a different god doesn't mean that they are wrong, maybe all the "gods" that are prayed to are the same person, maybe it was meant for us to worship differently. And don't worry about those who don't worship, because if they are right, they've speant alot of good hours sleeping as opposed to church.



BTW: The bible has been used as a tool to put fear into people, If your fearfull for your friends, don't be, it has been altered to many times by to many people with agendas. If god intended for us to worry everytime we made a decision in life, everytime we made a mistake for fear of going to hell, he/she isn't really that great, which proves the bible is lieing.
--nj




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Re: What If......

Post by She » Wed Jan 29, 2003 6:38 pm

Maybe I'll just start sleeping in church. That way I don't go to hell if there is a God and I've gotten every precious moment of my deserved sleep if there isn't.



Or I could just sleep and take my chances. Isn't Sunday a day of rest anyways? Whoo!
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven: a time to be born and a time to die, time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain, a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace."

--Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

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Re: What If......

Post by Nj » Wed Jan 29, 2003 6:47 pm

haha, really funny.... not.
--nj




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