Faith Vs. Family

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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by SirPostAlot » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:11 pm

Originally posted by !XogFog@Jul 28 2005, 02:45 AM

Church before G-d? How do you arrive at that one?

[right][/right]



Church helps people, i.e. they donate money to organizations, they help w/ special olympics, etc...



I don't agree w/ the faith based part of the church, but i do think that their volunteering is good...



and something that actually exsists, is more important than a made-up illogical figure...



~Jeff~

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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by _ofunsoundmind » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:33 pm

and something that actually exsists, is more important than a made-up illogical figure...

Jeff, please remember that that's your opinion. I'm not meaning to be rude, but that statement kind of offended me because it came across as if you were pronouncing it as an actual fact. I'm not saying you can't believe that...not at all. Just please understand that something like that can be hurtful to some. :)



No hard feelings, k? :hug:



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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by PurplePoemPuppet » Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:12 pm

Originally posted by SirPostAlot@Jul 28 2005, 06:11 PM

Church helps people, i.e. they donate money to organizations, they help w/ special olympics, etc...



I don't agree w/ the faith based part of the church, but i do think that their volunteering is good...



and something that actually exsists, is more important than a made-up illogical figure...



~Jeff~

[right][/right]

That doesn't seem to make much sense to me. Church may as well just be an organization of "doing good deeds" rather than church. You do realize that they do these things because of their belief in God? That the idea of church is organized because of God, for one to learn about his teachings, but also to have fellowship with others? The faith based part of the church is the point... the volunteering is the bonus because of faith.
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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by 309756 » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:11 pm

Not necessarily.



http://www.uua.org... service before theology.



It's more important to be to be a good person and serve than to recite a creed or have faith.

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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by Toy Soldier » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:26 pm

Originally posted by pandasandpenguins@Jul 29 2005, 03:11 AM

Not necessarily.



http://www.uua.org... service before theology.



It's more important to be to be a good person and serve than to recite a creed or have faith.

[right][/right]

However, if you believe in the Determinist view, being a good person and helping others does'nt help you get anywhere in life, as G-d has already decided whether you are going to Heaven or Hell before you were born.



If it was'nt for your family, you would'nt be here now...however, where a child is being abused and believes in something more, its understandable that they would believe in their faith and put them before their family...their faith promises them something more (like going to Heaven etc) whereas their family has only made them endure pain and suffering.






and something that actually exsists, is more important than a made-up illogical figure...


But if that 'made up illogical figure' helps to give them some faith and happiness in life, then surely its good, especially if they base their good deeds on that religion, if its inspired them, no?



~*~Ruth~*~
Ruth I was forgotten, I won't be forgotten, never again... says:

lol, dont think they have tigers on farmsthough :/



Angel Breaks says:

i was thinkin that but fuck it macdonald was progressive he knew tigers were the future

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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by 309756 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:21 am

Determinism... I'm not a follower. That's always bothered me.



Ooh, Calvinism!



However, I respect your belief and therefore I can understand your position.

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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by Toy Soldier » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:49 am

Lol, I'm not a Determinist lol, though I believe some thing are determined already, I think G-d gives you a choice, and whichever path you take will have the results determined lol.



But its good to know someone else who knows about Calvinism lol.The main people who know what I'm talking about are the people in my Philosphy and Ethics class lol.



~*~Ruth~*~
Ruth I was forgotten, I won't be forgotten, never again... says:

lol, dont think they have tigers on farmsthough :/



Angel Breaks says:

i was thinkin that but fuck it macdonald was progressive he knew tigers were the future

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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by 309756 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:02 pm

Calvinism is so much fun... extreme versions include the "I knew who you were before you were born"... hee hee.



I enjoy mental paradoxes and such.

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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by SirPostAlot » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:55 pm

I don't think people do these good deeds because "God" approves, i think they do it through the generousity of their own heart...

if people goal in donating their time is to please god and save a seat in heaven, then that, in my opinion is just sad...

this thread is about our personal opinions, haha, so don't take any of my rambelings personal, hun...its just as i am sitting here typing i know there are churches out there that are holding soup kitchens and that are holding bingo to unite the community...its about the humans, the mortals, the earthlings uniting for a common good...its not about god dictatering or showing them the way to work...

Evolution is the way this world was created, so if we do worship something for making us today, we should be prasing the ambea and the single-celled organisms...

Sorry, thats sorta off-topic...



Ruth: like i just stated, i don't think people do volunteer thier time to make a good image of themselves in gods' eyes, they do it to purify their heart and to know that they as a person are making a difference...



~Jeff~

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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by 309756 » Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:04 am

Right, service is worship in a way for many religious liberals/secular humanists. I agree.



I help out at a Christian day care center but I'm not expected to evangelize. I just like the service.

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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by Toy Soldier » Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:57 pm

Originally posted by SirPostAlot@Jul 30 2005, 01:55 AM

Ruth: like i just stated, i don't think people do volunteer thier time to make a good image of themselves in gods' eyes, they do it to purify their heart and to know that they as a person are making a difference...



~Jeff~

[right][/right]



Heh, I know you mean Jeff...just there are people I know who will do something because it makes a good image of themselves in G-d's eyes. Those people are far and few, but they still exist...Its kinda like people who go to Church because it will make a good impression to G-d, but then they turn into the most 2 faced people, but because they can say 10 Hail Marys at confessionals next week, so they get forgiven...



But I know what you mean Jeff :hugs:



~*~Ruth~*~
Ruth I was forgotten, I won't be forgotten, never again... says:

lol, dont think they have tigers on farmsthough :/



Angel Breaks says:

i was thinkin that but fuck it macdonald was progressive he knew tigers were the future

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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by __hazyxeyes » Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:12 pm

I don't think people do these good deeds because "God" approves, i think they do it through the generousity of their own heart...

if people goal in donating their time is to please god and save a seat in heaven, then that, in my opinion is just sad...



I agree. I'm not really all that religious, but I do things like volunteer at the Red Cross and local charities and try to be a nice person because I just want to be a nice person and help people who ask me for advice, and help out at places where people are worse off than me. Doing things like that makes me feel somewhat fulfilled. I like volunteer work :)



If people all of a sudden start doing good deeds left and right out of nowhere, either they just want to turn their life around or perhaps compensating for something they've done?
sorrow drips into your && there is comfort in the sound



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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by SirPostAlot » Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:51 pm

Originally posted by Toy Soldier@Jul 30 2005, 08:57 PM



Heh, I know you mean Jeff...just there are people I know who will do something because it makes a good image of themselves in G-d's eyes. Those people are far and few, but they still exist...Its kinda like people who go to Church because it will make a good impression to G-d, but then they turn into the most 2 faced people, but because they can say 10 Hail Marys at confessionals next week, so they get forgiven...



But I know what you mean Jeff :hugs:



~*~Ruth~*~


[right][/right]



yeah i know a few people like that...like this one kid who does bad stuff like smoking pot, doing crack, etc and some stuff thats not really bad but bad in gods eyes like randomly hooking up, lieing, etc...but he goes to church every week and is an alter-server and thinks that that makes up for it...



ohh well...its just that these people will soon open their eyes and view the real world and see that shit doesn't really happen that way....after that they will then understand the way the world actually works...



~Jeff~

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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by PurplePoemPuppet » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:46 am

Originally posted by SirPostAlot@Jul 30 2005, 06:51 PM

yeah i know a few people like that...like this one kid who does bad stuff like smoking pot, doing crack, etc and some stuff thats not really bad but bad in gods eyes like randomly hooking up, lieing, etc...but he goes to church every week and is an alter-server and thinks that that makes up for it...



ohh well...its just that these people will soon open their eyes and view the real world and see that shit doesn't really happen that way....after that they will then understand the way the world actually works...



~Jeff~

[right][/right]

The thing is, I wonder if you can really judge that he thinks that being an alter server and going to church every week "makes up" for it. I know several guys in at my church who have/had lots of issues involving drugs, alcohol, sex, etc. but it doesn't mean they are all "righteous" or anything. People have their good days and their bad days. It's a struggle to break 'bad habits' and hopefully this is a way for it to help him ya know? Some people also have their own interpretations about what they can do that aren't necessarily concrete (the random hooking up I guess). Or maybe it's another struggle of his.



It's no easy thing to "just say no" when you're swept up in the midst of regular teenage life, and I'm sure you know this. One of this biggest struggles for a person on the outside looking in is to think that the so-called 'church kid' is not going to be hypocritical in their actions. Granted they shouldn't be, they should lead by example and practice what they preach, but keep in mind that they are teenagers and fallible just like the rest of us. And this, in my opinion, puts you and all others, in no position to tell them how they should view the world and how it works.
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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by Toy Soldier » Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:23 pm

One of this biggest struggles for a person on the outside looking in is to think that the so-called 'church kid' is not going to be hypocritical in their actions. Granted they shouldn't be, they should lead by example and practice what they preach, but keep in mind that they are teenagers and fallible just like the rest of us. And this, in my opinion, puts you and all others, in no position to tell them how they should view the world and how it works.





I understand what you're saying Steph...Its just irritating when someone at my college say my opinions are wrong and that theirs is right because of their religion...I accept their opinions, but I wish they would also accept my opinions or acknowledge them, in stead of saying that I'm 'going to Hell cos of what I think or believe'.Thats why I'm particulary like the way I am in topics like this :/



~*~Ruth~*~
Ruth I was forgotten, I won't be forgotten, never again... says:

lol, dont think they have tigers on farmsthough :/



Angel Breaks says:

i was thinkin that but fuck it macdonald was progressive he knew tigers were the future

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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by PurplePoemPuppet » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:28 pm

Originally posted by Toy Soldier@Jul 31 2005, 02:23 PM



I understand what you're saying Steph...Its just irritating when someone at my college say my opinions are wrong and that theirs is right because of their religion...I accept their opinions, but I wish they would also accept my opinions or acknowledge them, in stead of saying that I'm 'going to Hell cos of what I think or believe'.Thats why I'm particulary like the way I am in topics like this :/



~*~Ruth~*~


[right][/right]

Oh yes, and it's completely understandable. Honestly, people don't have the right to tell you you're going to Hell. Or if in the case that they do, there are better ways to present that to someone. It's awful that you'll find a vast majority of people who will tell it to you how they believe it is and disregard anything but what they believe in too, but it's out there. So we, whether religious or not, I think, have a responsibility to these people to help them open up their minds. And not necessarily to to give credit to what others believe, but to, as you said, help them to acknowledge our beliefs, whatever they may be.
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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by SirPostAlot » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:45 pm

Steph, why do you always make everyone look so good? Haha...you would make a great counser when you are older...haha...



But seriously, i mean yeah i know its hard to say no and shit but going to such a small school you know everyone inside and out and i know that these people, at least this specific person, thinks that going to church is making up for it and that he is allowed to do these things because he respect jesus and god, though i guess not his own body since he does drugs, but im going into that right now...



i dunno...i mean i know that these things are bad and i have drank before, but i know moderation and i know things...hmm...sometimes i really hate being mature for my age, esp. around here...it screws up everything and makes me think before i act, though not always before i talk...



i dunno...



steph you are right, so we can't argue about this one (:() haha...but im just saying that though these people deserve our sympathy and support, i just get annoyed w/ people and have a small tolerance of there petty indulgeses (omg there are soo many mis-spellings in that sentence :( sorry)



~Jef

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Re: Faith Vs. Family

Post by PurplePoemPuppet » Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:50 pm

Haha Jeff, I try to put things into perspective. And with this guy, I mean, maybe you do know him and maybe he honestly does think that going to church makes up for it. Consider though the possibility that somewhere inside, he's festering everything that is pulling him in every which direction. There are a lot of different opinions on certain things you can "do" and how much of each you can do (like the drinking thing) and that's a personal issue you deal with, with God and/or with yourself.



And I know the annoying thing too. I find myself there often just getting pissed off at any old thing that people do. It's in our nature, but of course, how we control and deal with it is another story.
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