Question For Catholics

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!XogFog
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Re: Question For Catholics

Post by !XogFog » Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:27 pm

Originally posted by turtbub+Aug 19 2005, 03:33 PM--
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I'm not exactly up on my Christian Bible quotes so I can't tell you where to find it, but there is a quote that complements the "you need faith, not good works alone" quote: it says that you need good works, and not just faith alone. So even Protestants need good works, dear. I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: Found it: James 2:24 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

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Justified isn't the same as being saved. Yes, good works are a great thing, but that's not what saves you. The Bible says many, many times that all you need is faith.



Acts 16:30-31

"Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."



Rom.10:9

"If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."



Eph.2:8-9

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast."



Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."



There are plenty more, if you're interested I can look them up for you. I'm not trying to debate you or anything, just to exchange opinions.



x Shelle

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Because they don't think that just believing in Jesus will save them. They think they have to do good works as well. AND they pray to Mary. Isn't that idolatry?

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They don't think so. And I'd say it's not idolatry, although it is not optimal.
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)



The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)

The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)



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Re: Question For Catholics

Post by Rose'nShannenRox » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:03 pm

Originally posted by _ofunsoundmind@Aug 19 2005, 06:17 PM

Jesus says you 'people will say the believe in me, but on judgement day they will cry Lord and i will say 'I never knew you' (paraphrased)

This may be harsh, but i believe its true because they bible said it is.
Yep, very true.

But that is not intended to apply to ALL Christians. The "they" He is referring to are the hypocrites...those who aren't willing to suffer as their savior suffered for them. Those who claim to believe, but who are only in it to obtain salvation. And in the end of days, these people will want to know Him only to be saved from the situation. God will have to turn away from these people because they are not true believers.



x Shelle

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Well why wouldnt it?, I think it refers to all because those who suffer for their savior but only for 'show' are hypocrytes, just as those who claim to be christians yet pray to saints and mary before God i believe fall in the same catagory.

I remember in school, I lost my wallet, i went to the lady who is in charge of lost and found, she said she didn't have it...and she told me 'Pray to saint anthony, he will find it for you'...thats no better then the people in africa who pray to their ancesters!

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6

5The living at least know they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, nor are they remembered. 6Whatever they did in their lifetime--loving, hating, envying--is all long gone. They no longer have a part in anything here on earth.



Meaning the dead people they call saints, can't do anything for them on earth, this says it plain and clear.
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...



My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.



I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!



-African pastor in Zimbabwe

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309756
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Re: Question For Catholics

Post by 309756 » Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:38 am

Isn't this forum supposed to be about religious tolerance?



I've tried to present a balanced view of Catholic theories of salvation, but it's totally unfair to bring in evangelical attacks on Catholic doctrines.



The plain message is this:



Catholics believe in the same God as Protestants. They believe that sacraments are a sign of devotion to God. They do not pray to saints as much as they look up to them. They execute4 good works as a sign of love of God. Is there anything else you wanted to know?

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Rose'nShannenRox
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Re: Question For Catholics

Post by Rose'nShannenRox » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:21 am

You are completly right, it is unfair, and i apologize. This thread is not the appropeiate time or place to debate about the Catholic doctrine.

It's just so many years of them forcing the doctrine down my throat saying 'we are the only right religion' etc...

Well i gave you my answer to your question...so yeah

I apologize again, im not some catholic or any other religion basher, so please don't label me as such. I just don't agree with the Catholic doctrine, and i should have jsut left it at that.
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...



My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.



I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!



-African pastor in Zimbabwe

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Re: Question For Catholics

Post by 309756 » Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:42 am

No, I understand. But personal experience/dislike doesn't mean that you have to say that their doctrine is somehow evil.



Again, no personal offense--I just wanted to make sure no bashing occurred.

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Re: Question For Catholics

Post by _ofunsoundmind » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:25 pm

I don't believe anyone was bashing...I was simply confused and wanted some answers. So I presented evidence against some of the things they believe to see if anyone could explain why they still believe that when it says otherwise in the Bible. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend.



x Shelle
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Re: Question For Catholics

Post by Rose'nShannenRox » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:19 pm

Originally posted by pandasandpenguins@Aug 20 2005, 02:42 AM

No, I understand. But personal experience/dislike doesn't mean that you have to say that their doctrine is somehow evil.



Again, no personal offense--I just wanted to make sure no bashing occurred.

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Heh, now i didn't say it was evil. :D

But non the less you are right.
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...



My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.



I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!



-African pastor in Zimbabwe

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Re: Question For Catholics

Post by Rose'nShannenRox » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:19 pm

Originally posted by _ofunsoundmind@Aug 20 2005, 12:25 PM

I don't believe anyone was bashing...I was simply confused and wanted some answers. So I presented evidence against some of the things they believe to see if anyone could explain why they still believe that when it says otherwise in the Bible. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend.



x Shelle

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Oh no, not ur fault hun, its your right to ask questions :D
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...



My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.



I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!



-African pastor in Zimbabwe

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Re: Question For Catholics

Post by 309756 » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:52 pm

No, it's not the asking of questions that was bashing, it was the "Catholics are as bad as animists" comparison. And that looks down on not just Catholicism, but also animism.

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Re: Question For Catholics

Post by turtbub » Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:07 pm

I'm sorry. It's my fault for bringing up the "will Catholics go to Heaven" question. I should have started a seperate topic. Sorry for causing a mild uproar.
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." Confucius



Romans 5:8 "God demonstrates His own love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."



"If you judge people, you have no time to love them." Mother Theresa



"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill



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Re: Question For Catholics

Post by !XogFog » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:47 am

I've got to disagree with pandasandpenguins here. I don't think anybody did anything wrong. You say the comparison bashed both animists and Catholics. Well, that's their opinion. To ask Christians not to look down on animism is wrong.
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)



The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)

The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)



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Re: Question For Catholics

Post by 309756 » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:03 am

"I remember in school, I lost my wallet, i went to the lady who is in charge of lost and found, she said she didn't have it...and she told me 'Pray to saint anthony, he will find it for you'...thats no better then the people in africa who pray to their ancesters!"



Well, I understand... but still. Read that and tell me it's not offensive?

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Re: Question For Catholics

Post by !XogFog » Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:14 am

Originally posted by pandasandpenguins@Aug 20 2005, 11:03 PM

"I remember in school, I lost my wallet, i went to the lady who is in charge of lost and found, she said she didn't have it...and she told me 'Pray to saint anthony, he will find it for you'...thats no better then the people in africa who pray to their ancesters!"



Well, I understand... but still. Read that and tell me it's not offensive?

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It is offensive. Look at the spelling and punctuation!
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)



The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)

The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)



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Re: Question For Catholics

Post by turtbub » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:06 pm

Yes it's offensive. But that's one person, you know?



*Shrug* Anyway, now we're arguing over if it's offensive or not. Back on topic all.
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." Confucius



Romans 5:8 "God demonstrates His own love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."



"If you judge people, you have no time to love them." Mother Theresa



"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill



There is no revenge so complete as forgiveness.

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