Heaven?

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Rose'nShannenRox
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Re: Heaven?

Post by Rose'nShannenRox » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:07 pm

Originally posted by SirPostAlot+Sep 7 2005, 07:30 PM--
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technically our parents made us...god didn't impregnate our moms through his will...our fathers semen is what is what created us...



~Jeff~

[right][/right]

[/b][/quote]

:rolleyes: well who made your dad? and your dads dad? the list goes on...



Psalm 139:13

13

You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body

and knit me together in my mother's womb.



this verse most likely means nothing to you, but it means everything to me, because i know it to be true.

So 'technically' God, my lord and my savior, created us...its not jsut what i believe, its what I know.
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...



My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.



I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!



-African pastor in Zimbabwe

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!XogFog
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Re: Heaven?

Post by !XogFog » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:25 pm

Originally posted by SirPostAlot+Sep 7 2005, 05:30 PM--
[/right]

[/b]


technically our parents made us...god didn't impregnate our moms through his will...our fathers semen is what is what created us...



~Jeff~

[right][/right]

[/b][/quote]



The mother and father make the body and G-d Above makes the soul.
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)



The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)

The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)



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LilyMaid
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Re: Heaven?

Post by LilyMaid » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:31 pm

Originally posted by Rose'nShannenRox+Sep 8 2005, 07:05 AM--
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Then where do they come from?

[right][/right]

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Where do my beliefs come from? My idea of a higher being comes from my beliefs about how humans should treat each other -- my own ideas about right and wrong that I have acquired through interaction with other people.



We are socialised into unique social and cultural communities; some people have an early introduction to Christianity and belief in Jesus is the norm; others live their lives in accordance with vastly different religions; and in some communities, God doesn't feature heavily. I'm sure many of you will disagree, but I don't think a just God would reject someone for being born and/or living in a certain community where belief in Jesus is not socially acceptable.



Different beliefs are unavoidable -- we each have a unique biography and so our beliefs vary greatly. The opportunity and capacity to accept Jesus is different for each of us. Even the most devoted Christian in this thread would have very different beliefs if she/he had been born in an Islamic state, for example. We should be judged on how we live -- how much respect we have for life on Earth.



A benevolent God would be more merciful and compassionate than any human. In my belief, God would embrace humanity and would not differentiate between a Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, Jew, or an indigenous person following traditional beliefs.





Take care,



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Re: Heaven?

Post by 309756 » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:58 pm

^

|

|



Simply Beautiful.

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Rose'nShannenRox
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Re: Heaven?

Post by Rose'nShannenRox » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:45 pm




Then where do they come from?

[right][/right]
We are socialised into unique social and cultural communities; some people have an early introduction to Christianity and belief in Jesus is the norm; others live their lives in accordance with vastly different religions; and in some communities, God doesn't feature heavily. I'm sure many of you will disagree, but I don't think a just God would reject someone for being born and/or living in a certain community where belief in Jesus is not socially acceptable.

[/quote]

Well, God does say, those who know and choose not too, will be judge more harshly then those who don't know and can't choose wether or not to believe...also, Jesus said he wont come back until EVERYONE on earth knows his name...not believe, but know who he is, and have the chance to believe or not...God is fair and just...and he wouldnt be that way if he didnt give everyone a fair chance now would he?
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...



My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.



I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!



-African pastor in Zimbabwe

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LilyMaid
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Re: Heaven?

Post by LilyMaid » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:59 am

Well, God does say, those who know and choose not too, will be judge more harshly then those who don't know and can't choose wether or not to believe...also, Jesus said he wont come back until EVERYONE on earth knows his name...not believe, but know who he is, and have the chance to believe or not...God is fair and just...and he wouldnt be that way if he didnt give everyone a fair chance now would he?


If somehow Christianity did become globally recognised, I don't think a just God would judge people according to whether or not they had accepted Christian beliefs.



Among those who have the opportunity to believe, the capacity to believe is different. The individual's capacity to accept the belief in Jesus would be affected by her socialisation experience. Knowing of the faith is not likely to lead to conversion if the social norms and values shared by her community are not consistent with Christian belief. It may be that she has been raised to be a devout Muslim, or that she practices traditional African or indigenous Australian spirituality. She will not readily do away with beliefs that are integral to her identity and are significant to the community in which she lives.



No matter what her belief, I think that an omniscient God, the creator of life, would accept this individual and the members of her community.



If you have been socialised such that your beliefs oppose Christian beliefs, the 'choice' would be perhaps be quite limited. I expect that you would hold to your own truth and the version of reality which you have constructed. To do otherwise would be to abandon your identity! Would a fair God expect an individual to do so?



It's interesting to read what other people believe.



Take care.
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Re: Heaven?

Post by Toy Soldier » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:33 am

I think good people will go into Heaven, regardless of their beliefs. I was always taught that if you are a good person, you will be rewarded by going into Heaven-and that was from a Church of England school!



G-d is supposed to be benevolent and if He is, surely He will let anyone of any faith into Heaven or Paradise or whatever as long as they have been good. My beliefs :)



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Re: Heaven?

Post by yoaliens3000 » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:01 pm

Generally speaking, I dont really understand why people base all their beliefs exactly off the bible... Do you really think God makes a checklist using the bible on how to grade us? seems I hear more of that way of thinking from non catholic christians.

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_ofunsoundmind
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Re: Heaven?

Post by _ofunsoundmind » Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:36 pm

The "Old" Testament does apply today... why would G-d create a set of rules, say that they are eternal, and then later change them? Also please be aware that almost all of the rules in the Hebrew Bible apply ONLY to Jews. For example, there is nothing wrong with a gentile eating pork, or working on the Sabbath (that's Saturday, by the way, not Sunday).

The Old Testament was the set of rules that people followed BEFORE the coming of Christ. That is how they gained salvation, because Jesus hadn't come yet. The New Testament was formed after Jesus, and that's why the N.T. applies to today, not the O.T.



x Shelle
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Re: Heaven?

Post by !XogFog » Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:10 pm

Originally posted by _ofunsoundmind@Sep 8 2005, 01:36 PM

The "Old" Testament does apply today... why would G-d create a set of rules, say that they are eternal, and then later change them? Also please be aware that almost all of the rules in the Hebrew Bible apply ONLY to Jews. For example, there is nothing wrong with a gentile eating pork, or working on the Sabbath (that's Saturday, by the way, not Sunday).

The Old Testament was the set of rules that people followed BEFORE the coming of Christ. That is how they gained salvation, because Jesus hadn't come yet. The New Testament was formed after Jesus, and that's why the N.T. applies to today, not the O.T.



x Shelle

[right][/right]

[/b]


G-d does not change His word. Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible does it say "by the way guys, I'll be throwing all this stuff away in a few hundred years." So what are you basing this claim of a "new" testament on?



Again, though, we should be discussing this in a different thread. I'll make one now.
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)



The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)

The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)



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Rose'nShannenRox
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Re: Heaven?

Post by Rose'nShannenRox » Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:46 pm

Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...



My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.



I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!



-African pastor in Zimbabwe

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Re: Heaven?

Post by lyn4sho » Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:49 pm

I put the first one, but I don't believe in hell, I believe in purgatory (kinda like limbo). I also think that God will accept anyone into heaven, since Jesus accepts all and forgives all.
Hello Adulthood!



The courage to serve them with reliance

Face my mistakes without defiance

Show them I'm worthy

And while I show them

I'll show me



So, let them bring on all their problems

I'll do better than my best

I have confidence they'll put me to the test

But I'll make them see I have confidence in me


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Re: Heaven?

Post by 309756 » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:43 pm

Good attitude.

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Doug
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Re: Heaven?

Post by Doug » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:33 am

Originally posted by yoaliens3000@Sep 8 2005, 12:01 PM

Generally speaking, I dont really understand why people base all their beliefs exactly off the bible... Do you really think God makes a checklist using the bible on how to grade us?

[right][/right]



Exactly.



I've read through this and the one thing that sticks out to me is that I don't think that most of you are grasping a key concept. The Bible wasn't created so that you don't have to think. You still have to interpret it and develop your own personal ideas. You all seem to be blurting out what has been spoon-fed to you by religious leaders and parents. Start thinking for yourselves. Start thinking about what God really wants from humanity. You'll be more religious, more intelligent, and closer to God because of it. I know I am.
"Yeah, I'm a great lesbian. Are you a good lesbian, Doug?" - Jenna

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309756
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Re: Heaven?

Post by 309756 » Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:39 am

Wow, another brilliant statement.



Something Channing said as well--"We can think of no other tome that depends so mucn on the discourse of reason" than the Bible.



:-P

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Re: Heaven?

Post by Jaegermeister » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:14 am

My personal opinion on here echoes a lot of different people.



YES, it is faith that you "get into" heaven.

NO, it is not based on works.



Notice though, I didn't say faith in Jesus. That is most of our way to get to heaven. I believe adherance to any moral/religious code that calls us to improve ourselves will allow us to get into our respective "paradise", and I think there's just one, the human mind simply views it differently.



Now, a bit about the works part. I don't think works really get you there. I don't think you can scrape by just by being "a good person". I really and truly believe that it is the faith part that differentiates the saved from the unsaved. BUT, I think that people who truly accept their religion into their heart WILL be more compassionate and more helpful to their fellow man, so the works will follow if you have the faith.



Now, in regards to specific religions that people will probably call me out on: Satanism doesn't apply, because it's about yourself. Your works revolve around yourself, and I believe a truly compassionate person will put others before themselves. As for the suicide bombers, yes they are following their faith. No I do not believe they are going to their heaven. My view of religion is all about love, and I can never accept an extremist interpretation that "violence is the answer". I will never accept open violence against other people as a way to get to heaven. I know, I'm not the one calling the shots, so it's not up to me, but in my mind I don't see it happening.



tJ
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"Be who you are and be that well" --St Francis de Sales.



Suaviter et fortiter



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Re: Heaven?

Post by SirPostAlot » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:34 pm


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Re: Heaven?

Post by yoaliens3000 » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:43 pm

Originally posted by SirPostAlot+Sep 15 2005, 08:34 PM--
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[/b]


See as much as i adore you, hun, i can't agree w/ this...

i know alot of religious people who are ignorant assholes - then again i know alot of non-religious people whoa re ignorant assholes...



i do not believe that faith makes you compassionate...

i do not believe that having faith in your heart makes you a better person...

im not saying that its ptless to have faith, if you believe in it then thats your business - but you can not nor should not judge a persons' compassionability or their helpfulness based on the sole fact of their faith ~vs~ lack of faith...



i hope that makes sence...



~Jeff~

[right][/right]

[/b][/quote]



For some reason it seems like you took that ofensively. Alot of things make you a better person. Alot of things make you compassionate. Sure you can have compassion and be a good person through other means. You have no faith in religion so how would you know? Thats like me making rash judgements on athesists without even have a clue about them.



Though if you think about it, look at history, most of the compassionate people(and 'better people') known to all of us have been people of faith(people who had faith i mean).

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Re: Heaven?

Post by A! Elbereth » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:07 pm

Originally posted by yoaliens3000@Sep 15 2005, 08:43 PM



For some reason it seems like you took that ofensively. Alot of things make you a better person. Alot of things make you compassionate. Sure you can have compassion and be a good person through other means. You have no faith in religion so how would you know? Thats like me making rash judgements on athesists without even have a clue about them.



Though if you think about it, look at history, most of the compassionate people(and 'better people') known to all of us have been people of faith(people who had faith i mean).

[right][/right]





So true. I like! :D



We don't inherit goodness... work is required for everything on earth, and it applies to heaven too.
Your soul.

Your body.

Your mind.


Keep it Purified.



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Re: Heaven?

Post by 309756 » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:44 am

Whoa.



Hang on



We don't inherit goodness. But work is required for everything on earth and heaven too? But you reject Catholic and Arminian theology based on its predominance of works? This makes no sense.

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