God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

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God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by xJuliex » Sun Dec 25, 2005 3:56 pm

In the Bible, God says MANY times that you shouldn't judge people. God ate with all people regardless of who they were, what they did, their appearance, whatever. And yet, my pastor seems to think it's right to deny people membership to his church if they're gay. Now, I know somewhere in the Bible it says homosexuality is wrong. I've read the verse, I understand. But it's the same freaking thing as stealing or adultry or dishonoring your mother or father. It's a sin that can be forgiven, and as long as you are saved, you go to Heaven. That's all there is to it. You're forgiven. That's why Jesus died. If you didn't go to Heaven when you were saved, his death would be for nothing.



Maybe it's just me, but I don't think my Pastor has any right to say who can and can't be a member at church. I know it's his church, but really, it's God's, and he's the ultimate judge, am I not right?
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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by yoaliens3000 » Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:12 pm

I totally agree with you. If my pastor would say anything like that I know Id get kinda mad too.

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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by !XogFog » Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:47 pm

I agree with you. Seems obvious to me.
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)



The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)

The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)



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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by Jaegermeister » Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:44 am

Yup, I pretty much agree.



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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by !XogFog » Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:25 pm

Originally posted by xJuliex@Dec 25 2005, 12:56 PM

In the Bible, God says MANY times that you shouldn't judge people. God ate with all people regardless of who they were, what they did, their appearance, whatever. And yet, my pastor seems to think it's right to deny people membership to his church if they're gay. Now, I know somewhere in the Bible it says homosexuality is wrong. I've read the verse, I understand. But it's the same freaking thing as stealing or adultry or dishonoring your mother or father. It's a sin that can be forgiven, and as long as you are saved, you go to Heaven. That's all there is to it. You're forgiven. That's why Jesus died. If you didn't go to Heaven when you were saved, his death would be for nothing.



Maybe it's just me, but I don't think my Pastor has any right to say who can and can't be a member at church. I know it's his church, but really, it's God's, and he's the ultimate judge, am I not right?

[right][/right]



Let's even look at this from a purely utilitarian standpoint: your pastor wants gay people to repent and not be gay anymore. Is that going to happen better if 1) he kicks them out and stays far, far away from them; or 2) he lets them into the community, embraces them, and shows them through example how beautiful his religious Jesus-filled life is?
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)



The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)

The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)



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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by xJuliex » Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:21 pm

Exactly. I'm glad it's not just me...I got so mad about it that I quit going to that church. It seems like every church I go to has something against gay people, and I'm sick and tired of it being that way. Eventually, I'll find another church to be in though...I hope. One that actually goes with my beliefs.
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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by sbloemeke » Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:02 pm

I know that the catholic church tends to be like that a lot. It is wrong, as sexuality has nothing to do with a desire to worship god. You may want to consider a protestant church. I really haven't heard of many people being denied for Gender...
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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by Adnama » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:58 pm

Through my own, limitted and humble, exploration of the bible and reading on what more knowledgeable people think, I've actually found that homosexuality is most likely -NOT- a sin. But that's a discussion for another time I suppose.



However, it's impossible to know for sure. But what we do know is that God sees all sins the same, and that we are all sinners no matter what [Sadam and Osama are as bad as the Pope and Mother Teressa.] The decideing factor is that Jesus died so that our sins could be forgiven, no matter what sins those may be. So if a homosexual goes to hell, they're going to hell because they're a sinner, not because they're homosexual. However if that homosexual believes in Jesus and is saved, then he is forgiven, whether homosexuality turns out to really be a sin or not.



That's what really makes me mad about christians. WE'RE ALL SINNERS! The gay people arn't any better or any worse! However, by being so damned closed minded you're chaseing people -AWAY- from God, and -that- is exactly what christians are NOT supposed to do. Gerr.
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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by yoaliens3000 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:15 pm


Through my own, limitted and humble, exploration of the bible and reading on what more knowledgeable people think, I've actually found that homosexuality is most likely -NOT- a sin. But that's a discussion for another time I suppose.

[/b]


Just because im wondering how you came to that conclusion, could you please share it with us?



:)

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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by Adnama » Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:58 pm

Way back when I had websites and things that I could point to and site and back my self up with better, but I've lost all that and I'll just have to go by what I can remember.



Now if you go into the old testimate you can find all kinds of fun things talking about how homosexuals are the devil and will be struck down where they stand. However the same books and people that proclaim that, also talk about not wearing clothes made out of more than one type of material and things like that which are absurd today- alot of what you find in the old testimate are things that were considered taboo in that time



And God understands this. Thats why when Jesus came along, he overturned the old testimate and gave us new laws. For the most part, that considered of him saying, yeah, fallow the 10 commandments because those are just plain common sence, but better yet you can sum all that up and -more- by loving God, and loving your neighbor as yourself. [The golden rule.] And thats really -all- a good christian is supposed to do.



However we have some other people who talk in the old testimate, a big one is Paul. Paul goes around after Jesus dies and preaches and writes and does his best to keep all the new christians and churches in line. He does a good job, and says some good things that go along with what God wills for his people. This includes at least one verse in one of Paul's letters [I want to say corinthians, but I couldn't find the highlighted vurse in my bible so I couldn't tell you which right now] that seems to say that homosexuals are gonig to burn in hell. This is where you have to apply a little logic, and a little historical knowledge.



First of all- the word that is used in most modern translations of the bible "homosexual" did not exist when Paul was writing. The word that Paul actually used is better translated as sodomite.

Second of all- a sodomite in Paul's time is not simply somone who has homosexual sex, or anal sex, or anything like that- the sodomite that paul is speaking of is very specificly a person who prostitutes himself outside the temple. Now, of course, that's a very dispicable practice to a christian! That's several sins all rolled into one because it's not only sexualy immoral [which the bible says is the "worst kind" of sin because you're sinning against -you're self-], but it's disrespectful towards God. Naturally Paul is going to warn the budding christians well away from such practices.



Now the above can be backed up by people much more knowledgeable than I, the sources are simply lost to the wind somewhere. What fallows is a bit of my own interpitation that I'll throw in for your consideration: What if the bible actually endources homosexuality?



I found a very interesting vurse one day not long ago. Now, Paul was asexual [wasn't intersted in sex at all] and celibate [this is backed up by Paul himself all over the place, he's constantly speaking about not wanting a wife and such. To him, the only reason to marry was so you could keep your sexual impulses under controll- have sex with your wife instead of with the local prostitute] And in 1 Corinthians 7:7 he says "I wish that all men were as I am. but each man has his own gift from god; one has this gift, another has that." This vurse comes in as he's speaking about marrige, so Paul's wish is that all men could be asexual and not have to take wives, but he acknowledges that this isn't always possible, because everyone has there own "gift" or way of being, some people are asexual, others are very sexual... prehaps homosexual? The way paul phrases this statement shows that there is more than just one distinction- there aren't just asexuals and sexuals, no, there are a couple different sexual gifts out there.



I dunno, that last one is deffinately just my humble oppinion. The rest however, is what I firmly believe untill the day that God leans out of heaven and tells me I'm stupid.
"It's just not the same when you're staring into a perfect golden sunset,

And thinking about how you sold your soul to send the rain away"

-Mineral "Slower"



"And the very fear that makes you want to die

Is just the same as what keeps you alive..."

-Barenaked Ladies, "War on drugs"



My blog of depressed rants: http://sendtherainaway.blogspot.com/

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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by yoaliens3000 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:03 pm

Haha thanks alot, that was really well written. I totally agree with you, I dont believe God thinks homosexuality is a sin. Not just from scripture sources, but sense Im catholic, I agree with a lot of what the vatican says regarding this and many other issues. Scripture was meant to be interpreted in many ways.

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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by UsedandAbused » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:35 pm

I think that if the pastor acts and feels that gays shouldnt be allowed in church he probably shouldnt be doing his job...every church i've been to knows i'm gay and openly accepts it through his eyes he shouldn't judge because a lot of people were totally against me being gay in church but as soon as they got to know me they were like oh it isn't such a bad thing I dunno people like that make me wanna lala.............it jus disgust me to think people can have that much hatred towards another person...!
I guess everyone has one special hero in their life.....someone who they look up to and admire now for me thats a different story.... I would have to say i'm my own hero....I have been on my own since I was about 14,I have never had a positive male influence in my life, I've been degraded for being gay since I was 13, I don't know I guess if there were heroes people I admired for being courageous I would have to say I am my own hero.........I ADMIRE MYSELF~~~~I am the one who was always looking out for myself...I was the one trying to find that one positive MALE influence in my life but never found the right one.........I am the one who was picking myself up when all people could do is kick me when I was already down.....

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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by Dobby » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:41 am

My thoughts on the topic have always been to not approve of the action of homosexuality but to embrace the people who call themselves homosexuals. In other words I don't like the act, but I still like the people. That's always been my view point on it.
99.9% of putts left short never go in, and that applies to everything in life.[/b]

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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by faith » Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:55 pm

i agree with u julie. its very hard for me too. i go to church every sunday and am very strong in my faith yet i dont think its "wrong" to be gay. its confusing becuase everywhere we go int he christian faith we are told thats wrong to be gay. its like we are being brainwashed with the hate towards them and like u said im sick of it! but believe and keep believing dont let others change your understanding and accpetance to others. u know?

take care and god bless

~faith
~God is our refuge and strength, always ready to help in times of trouble. psalm 46:1-2

~God created people in his own image; God patterned them after himself Genesis 1:27

~Stop judging others, and u will not be judged. Stop criticizing others, or it will all come back on u. Luke 6:37

~There are "friends" who destroy eachother but a real freind sticks closer than a brother. Proverbs 18:24

~A fool is quick tempered but a wise person stays calm when insulted. Proverbs 12:16

~The tounge is a small thing but what enormous damage it can do. James 3:5

~Even if my father and mother abandon me the Lord will hold me close. Psalm 27:10

~Get rid of all bitterness...instead be kind to eachother Ephesians 4:31-32

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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by Adnama » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:00 am

Being a christian dosn't mean you fallow other christians, it means you fallow christ. Don't let a bunch of other people brainwash you into believing anything, do you're own prayerful thought, and reading, and research, and decide your own beliefs.
"It's just not the same when you're staring into a perfect golden sunset,

And thinking about how you sold your soul to send the rain away"

-Mineral "Slower"



"And the very fear that makes you want to die

Is just the same as what keeps you alive..."

-Barenaked Ladies, "War on drugs"



My blog of depressed rants: http://sendtherainaway.blogspot.com/

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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by yoaliens3000 » Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:35 pm


i agree with u julie. its very hard for me too. i go to church every sunday and am very strong in my faith yet i dont think its "wrong" to be gay. its confusing becuase everywhere we go int he christian faith we are told thats wrong to be gay. its like we are being brainwashed with the hate towards them and like u said im sick of it! but believe and keep believing dont let others change your understanding and accpetance to others. u know?

take care and god bless

~faith

[/b]


Technically the official stance for most Christians denominations and sects is that they all accept homosexuality and see nothing wrong with it. Individual opinions of a few priests do not categorize as the offical stance of your church. I have never seen this brainwashing that everyone is talking about. Maybe its different around here.

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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by munchkinprince » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:01 am

that whole "hate the sin, love the sinner" thing is starting to bug me...



I went to a first baptist church the week that Massachusetts allowed gay marriage. That sunday, the message was about how the downfall of the United States was imminent. The lesson the week before had been about good samaritan and whatnot, and now is the anti-gay speech. That's what happens when one hates the sin.



It's not our business to worry about the sin unless we have some intimate knowledge of how to fix it or G-d tells you to. Until then, all we do, and I mean ALL we do is Love. That's it. No less than that!

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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by chsblondie67 » Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:40 pm

Ouc church is against it, and they always go on these stupid rants, their so annoying. In the bible..doesnt it say not to judge people? Doesnt it say to love everyone? Yeah, thats what I thought. I think their messed up in the head...
Love always,

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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by munchkinprince » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:11 am

Unfortunately, it also says to flee from sin, which they probably take out of context

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Re: God Said "judge Not Lest You Be Judged," Right?

Post by munchkinprince » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:50 pm

One of the verses I really don't like is... I never know the addresses, so I'm sorry, but I remember the gist... "throw out those of sexual immorality from your fellowship. Turn them over to the darkness and they will seek Me when they are ready." or something to that effect.



If they see homosexuality as a sin of sexual immorality, and they probably do, they have a right, through this verse, to deny membership. However, this contradicts the "we welcome everyone" ideals...



Then again, it's pretty stupid on the church Elders' (whatever the governing body is) part to deny anyone the word of G-d, since it might be their responsibility to share with those they consider immoral...
Jesus loves you! Even if I think you suck!





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I know a kid named Sora who defeated the darkness in humanity's hearts and he's a teenager. You're an adult; what have you done with your life?

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