Originally posted by !XogFog+May 29 2005, 12:13 AM--
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is that word found in the old testement? then of course they would say that because as far as I know, they had no sense of the trinity until Jesus came
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Yes, it's in there, it's in that passage I quoted Jesus as saying in the first post (the Shema).
When you say "they" you mean the Israelites? So you're saying they wrote it, not knowing about the trinity? You don't believe G-d wrote it? Because surely He would have known, right?
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Yes im saying they wrote w/o knowledge of the trinity.
Do u know of any passeges in the OT that mention holy spirit? or the son? (besides the prophets)
They are known because of Jesus, look in the NT and you will find reference to Jesus mentioning of God the father, himself, and the holy spirit
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...
My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.
I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!
Originally posted by LostMySanity@May 29 2005, 02:06 PM
There is this verse in the bible something along the lines of
In the begining He was there and I was There
-MARY
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Yes
John 1:1 "In the begining was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God"
John 1:2-4"He was with God in the beging, all things were made through him. Nothing was made without him. In him there was life, that life wwas the light for the people of the world. The light shines for the people of the world."
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...
My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.
I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!
Originally posted by Rose'nShannenRox+May 29 2005, 11:58 AM--
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is that word found in the old testement? then of course they would say that because as far as I know, they had no sense of the trinity until Jesus came
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Yes, it's in there, it's in that passage I quoted Jesus as saying in the first post (the Shema).
When you say "they" you mean the Israelites? So you're saying they wrote it, not knowing about the trinity? You don't believe G-d wrote it? Because surely He would have known, right?
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Yes im saying they wrote w/o knowledge of the trinity.
Do u know of any passeges in the OT that mention holy spirit? or the son? (besides the prophets)
They are known because of Jesus, look in the NT and you will find reference to Jesus mentioning of God the father, himself, and the holy spirit
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So you're saying G-d didn't author the OT?
The prophets don't contain anything about the trinity, or even about Jesus.
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)
The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)
The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)
The prophets don't contain anything about the trinity, or even about Jesus.
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They dont mention Jesus directly, but they do mention someone comming to redeem them, to save them. (Check book of Isaih (sp?))
God didn't write it down for them, God had influence, he inspired, but in all technicality, he didn't write, which is why the bible is perfect yet imperfect...inspired by God, interpreted by man
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...
My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.
I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!
Originally posted by Rose'nShannenRox@May 29 2005, 04:59 PM
So you're saying G-d didn't author the OT?
The prophets don't contain anything about the trinity, or even about Jesus.
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They dont mention Jesus directly, but they do mention someone comming to redeem them, to save them. (Check book of Isaih (sp?))
God didn't write it down for them, God had influence, he inspired, but in all technicality, he didn't write, which is why the bible is perfect yet imperfect...inspired by God, interpreted by man
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You're correct, the prophets mention a Messiah, but not a trinity, and not Jesus specifically. I guess the authorship of the OT is where we differ; I feel the first 5 books (Genesis - Deuteronomy) were taught by G-d to Moses at Sinai, and he wrote them down verbatim. As for the rest, it was either G-d talking through the prophets or divinely inspired writing (depending on the Book) however I do not feel that G-d's inspiration produces a flawed product.
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)
The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)
The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)
You're correct, the prophets mention a Messiah, but not a trinity, and not Jesus specifically. I guess the authorship of the OT is where we differ; I feel the first 5 books (Genesis - Deuteronomy) were taught by G-d to Moses at Sinai, and he wrote them down verbatim. As for the rest, it was either G-d talking through the prophets or divinely inspired writing (depending on the Book) however I do not feel that G-d's inspiration produces a flawed product.
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How could he have written them down? They had no written language back then, just spoken, they just memorized the laws...but no written document, there is speculation of it, in the Ark of the Covanent(which is what a Jewish Ethyopian tribe claim to have), which no one can see because its so holy that no one can see it...but that is where they claim that the written down laws are, but never proven.
I don't believe that he produced a flawed product either, the interpreations, escpieally today are flawed (ie. Waco Cult) Its hard to explain what im tryin to say...but i know God doesnt make his word, flawed
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...
My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.
I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!
Originally posted by Rose'nShannenRox@May 29 2005, 06:35 PM
You're correct, the prophets mention a Messiah, but not a trinity, and not Jesus specifically. I guess the authorship of the OT is where we differ; I feel the first 5 books (Genesis - Deuteronomy) were taught by G-d to Moses at Sinai, and he wrote them down verbatim. As for the rest, it was either G-d talking through the prophets or divinely inspired writing (depending on the Book) however I do not feel that G-d's inspiration produces a flawed product.
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How could he have written them down? They had no written language back then, just spoken, they just memorized the laws...but no written document, there is speculation of it, in the Ark of the Covanent(which is what a Jewish Ethyopian tribe claim to have), which no one can see because its so holy that no one can see it...but that is where they claim that the written down laws are, but never proven.
I don't believe that he produced a flawed product either, the interpreations, escpieally today are flawed (ie. Waco Cult) Its hard to explain what im tryin to say...but i know God doesnt make his word, flawed
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I don't know on what evidence, either historical or biblical, you are saying that the Israelites didn't have a written language, but they did.
I also think we're getting off-topic.
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)
The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)
The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)
I don't know on what evidence, either historical or biblical, you are saying that the Israelites didn't have a written language, but they did.
I also think we're getting off-topic.
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can you prove it? Give me some facts.
Also, i just thought about this:
Genesis 1: 26 or 25 "Let us make man in our image"
poissble refernence to trinity
Im a part of the fellowship of the unashamed.I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast.I have stepped over the line.The decision has been made. Im a disciple of His.I wont look back,let up,slow down,back away,or be still...
My face is set,my gait is fast,my goal is heaven,my road is narrow,my way is rough,my companions are few,my Guide is reliable,my mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised,detoured,lured away,turned back,deluded,or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice,hesitate in the presence of the adversary,negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity,or meander in the maze of mediocrity.
I wont give up,shut up,let up,untill i have stayed up,stored up,prayed up,paid up,preached up for the cause of Christ.I am a disciple of Jesus.I must go till He comes,give till i drop,preach till all know,and work till He stops me; and when He comes for His own,He will have no problem recognizing me-my banner will be clear!
Originally posted by Rose'nShannenRox@May 30 2005, 06:12 PM
I don't know on what evidence, either historical or biblical, you are saying that the Israelites didn't have a written language, but they did.
I also think we're getting off-topic.
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can you prove it? Give me some facts.
Also, i just thought about this:
Genesis 1: 26 or 25 "Let us make man in our image"
poissble refernence to trinity
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I've heard that one before. That's G-d consulting the heavenly court, the angels. But when you look at the actual verb of creating, it's in the singular form.
I'll try to find proof of when the Israelites had written language, but I think there's also a burden on you to back up your statement and bring evidence they didn't. I can bring you Biblical evidence off the top of my head, though: G-d instructed Moses on writing the Tablets with the Ten Commandments on them, correct (the first pair was written by G-d, the second set by Moses)? So Moses could write at the very least under the direction of G-d. So why not say that at the very least G-d instructed Moses on how to write as well as what to write?
However, I'm fairly sure that yours is not the mainline Christian position, and that Christianity holds the divinity of the Old Testament as well as the New, and wouldn't disagree that they were written down in the desert, at Sinai.
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)
The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)
The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)
ok well you know the story about Jesus now and why he is here, well when Jesus died he didnt have n e way to actually be with us n e more so he has the holy ghost who is with us at all times..
and also another way to explain it, its like a motor, there is only one motor but there are different parts that make up the motor to make it a whole you see?
i didnt really realize this before or i would have already posted it i spologize, but now im kind of doubting your question... Are you saying you as of right now believe there IS no trinity, or you just really dont know why people call it that?
Originally posted by silvertears@May 30 2005, 09:43 PM
i didnt really realize this before or i would have already posted it i spologize, but now im kind of doubting your question... Are you saying you as of right now believe there IS no trinity, or you just really dont know why people call it that?
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I don't believe in the Trinity.
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)
The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)
The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)
The oldest known alphabet consists of recently discovered graffiti, scratched onto rocks in central Egypt around 1800 BC. It appears to have been used by Semitic workers or mercenaries partially integrated into Egyptian society. The alphabet had previously been thought to have originated some 300 years later. (See Middle Bronze Age alphabets.)
The Egyptians aleady had an alphabet as part of their hieroglyphic script, but only used purely alphabetic writing when transcribing foreign names. The inventors of the Semitic alphabet, whether Semitic workers or Egyptian bureaucrats, appear to have taken Egyptian hieroglyphs (and not just the Egyptian alphabet) and given them translated Semitic names. So, for example, pr "house" became bayt "house". At this point scholars are still debating whether, when these glyphs were used to write the Semitic language instead of Egyptian, they were purely alphabetic, or whether, for example, the "house" glyph stood for both the consonant b and the sequence byt, as it had stood for both p and pr in Egyptian. However, by the time it was inherited by the Canaanites, it was purely alphabetic, standing only for b (see Phoenician alphabet).
All subsequent alphabets around the world have either descended from this first Semitic alphabet, or else been inspired by one of its descendents. The one modern-day national alphabet that cannot be traced to it graphically is the Maldivian script, which is unique in that, although clearly modeled after existing alphabets such as Arabic, it derives its letters from numerals! (However, there is some speculation that the ancestral Brahmi numerals above 3 may ultimately derive from the Semitic alphabet as well.)
G-d is not a man, that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)
The fear of the L-RD is the beginning of knowledge; foolish ones scorn wisdom and discipline. (Proverbs 1:7)
The beginning of wisdom is to aquire wisdom; from your every acquisition acquire understanding. (Proverbs 4:7)
