I'm Not Bitching

[Jesykah ^_^]

Ok, I think it's rather odd that we have a section in here for drugs and alcohol. Shouldn't we be trying to STOP teens from doing drugs and drinking alcohol? Having a free topic for them to discuss whatever they want, seems to encourage them and make them feel it's ok. I know it's all part of growing up, but...hm. It just seems rather odd to me. Now, I'm not complaining, because I've posted in there before as well, I'm just saying that it doesn't make much sense and that I really don't agree with it.



Don't hate me .

[Lena]

Originally posted by Jesykah @Jun 19 2005, 05:52 PM

Ok, I think it's rather odd that we have a section in here for drugs and alcohol. Shouldn't we be trying to STOP teens from doing drugs and drinking alcohol? Having a free topic for them to discuss whatever they want, seems to encourage them and make them feel it's ok. I know it's all part of growing up, but...hm. It just seems rather odd to me. Now, I'm not complaining, because I've posted in there before as well, I'm just saying that it doesn't make much sense and that I really don't agree with it.



Don't hate me .

[right][/right]

I believe that the forum is there to help with the issue, not condone it. Unfortunately, it seems to be doing the opposite. I guess we need to consider where to draw the line.... I think the purpose for the forum needs to be made very much more obvious.

[Jesykah ^_^]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The people in that forum are using it to their advantage rather than to actually get "help".

[Lena]

Originally posted by Jesykah @Jun 19 2005, 06:46 PM

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The people in that forum are using it to their advantage rather than to actually get "help".

[right][/right]

I completely agree.



*Thinks that this topic needs more replies!*

[turtbub]

*Gives more replies*



I agree 100% Jessi.



I'll repeat what I said in staff chat:



I agree 100%. I went in the drug/alcohol forum the other day and I was all ready to give people numbers and websites of helplines and such. But all I found were a few questions about what drugs were what and a topic about how to do weed and still pass a drug test.



I don't think that's okay. Because, by having a topic that gives people tips to avoid getting caught doing drugs and such, that's not only harmful but also ILLEGAL.



It absolutely should be changed.

[Emily]

I don't think they're flat out saying what to do, but sometimes they tell people how to be safe about it.



Isn't that helping the issue. Just like a cutter, they tell people how to cover it up.



They're all helping in their own way.

[four]

Originally posted by turtbub@Jun 19 2005, 04:36 PM

I don't think that's okay. Because, by having a topic that gives people tips to avoid getting caught doing drugs and such, that's not only harmful but also ILLEGAL.[right][/right]

First off that is not at all illegal, not in the slightest. If you are on probation and you use an adulterant to cover up your drug use, then yes, you will probably have your probation violated, but drinking a good deal of water and exercising for instance is not in any way illegal.



We help lots of people who come in and have drug problems, we help them get off drugs, tell their parents, get into rehab, or tell them how to stop doing them on their own. We inform them of the truth, we do not use scare tactics saying that ecstasy will drain your spinal fluid or anything.



We do practice harm reduction in this forum. It is important that a person knows how much of a drug to take. If they have already decided to do some coke and bought a gram and have no idea how much to take and we do not tell them they could easily snort the entire gram, overdose, and die. And what good does it do for someone who is trying to get a job to not get it because of what they do in the privacy of their own home? They are trying to be productive members of society, why should the way they have fun matter? If they drink at home it would not matter, why is this any different?



I have moderated this forum for at least the past 2 years, well before and after we changed from TH to HT, and it has always been this way. This has been questioned numerous times, but the point of view that I am stating has always won out, and I trust that it will again during this one. The forum is not for discussing what drug you like best or what drugs you have done, I try to move those to Chit-Chat (though I have gotten into arguments with those mods in the past when they move them back...), but we have very important topics, no matter what you think of them. I stand by this forum and the discussions we have in it.

[sweethelp]

alright well im just gonna speak my mind on this one



i disagree in a way, teenagers need to learn the safe way to do drugs, not just the whole "drugs are bad! dont do them!" thats like schools only teaching abstinence(sp?) most kids have sex and do drugs no matter what, so you mine as well teach them how to do it safely. now if we do this to the drugs/alcohol forum then we would have to do that to the sex sex sex forum also. not everyone is ready to admit if they need help or not, or some people just want to know what its like to be high or drunk and decide if its right for them, or if somethings normal when they got high, they need help to figure out if the way they acted was normal or what not. and i believe there have been debates on this subject before and thats where the SEARCH button comes in handy people

i dunno if i made my point clear, but i disagree. although i understand what your trying to say and where you are coming from but its better to make sure people are taking the drugs safely then have them take them the wrong way and possibly end up in a hospital.



~~Kimmy~~

[SirPostAlot]

I have been at this for years (or so it seems)...

But i agree w/ kimmy...

We are not going to get kids to stop doing drugs, so we should teach them how to do the drugs safely, BUT still discuss the flaws, complications, and cons to drugs...

Its similar to the sexsexsex forum...We could just reply sex is bad unless you are married or do not have sex w/ anyone unless both of you go get tested and you see the other results, or w/e...

But doing that won't stop people from having sexual relations, so we need to teach people the right way to do drugs and the right way to have sex, etc but still being safe and still talking about the flaws, complications, and cons to each issue...



~Jeff~

[Sam!]

This has been discussed multiple times before and while I agree with you, Four apparently thinks he is able to keep tabs on everything and anything as a mod.

[Lena]

Informing and condoning are two very different things. I agree with giving information, but I do not agree when it goes too far and crosses the line, sending out the message that drug taking is a good idea.



My thoughts



Lena.

[FiZzBaW]

friends,



I figured it would be good for an admin to chime in on this topic, I have been gone most of last week and then at work all weekend so I seemed to have missed the heat of this conversation, but in way that is good, because my opinion early on may have caused the topic to go a different way.



I think that the forum is ok as it is. Helpingteens.org does not in any way shape or form promote the use of drugs at all. I do however believe that if someone is going to be takng drugs that they should be informed on safe methods in which to do so. Even though I think they should be discouraged from doing so at all.



If you see a post that is encouraging the use of drugs, please report it, as that is not acceptable, but topics that are educating users of how to safely do what they are going to do anyway, are fine.



Those are my thoughts, if you do not feel that I have satisfied you with a decent explination, please msg me and I will go into futher discussion with you. I just think it needs to be clear that we want to Help teens, we don't want them doing drugs, but if they are doing them, they should do them safely...



-my thoughts

-Jared

[skaterGuy15]

It's like 13 year olds asking about sex in the sex forum. It's no good to say "You're too young!". They're going to do it anyway, so we might as well tell them the safest way.



I think taking drugs is a personal choice and no one needs to be preached to. I think the forum is fine as it is.

[Jesykah ^_^]

So um, what about the suicide forum? Some people in there are going to do it anyway, so what are you going to do, show them the safe way to do it?

[skaterGuy15]

Jess - what are you talking about? There is no safe way to commit suicide. Deliberately wanting to end your life and wanting to get a buzz are two completely different things, don't compare them.



Drugs don't necessarily lead to death if you're responsible about it. There are always unfortunate cases where people do die from it, but people die every day from driving cars, you can't stop them from doing everything.

[Lena]

Would you tell people in the self harm forum the best way to cut deeper but safely? (Please answer honestly)



NOTHING that can potentially harm you is SAFE.



Why aid people to do dangerous things?



Also, a further point:



Why are we, a forum with a community largely made up of teens, presuming to know that we know the safest way to do drugs? Nobody here is a medical professional. Nobody here is an expert on the effects of drugs. Shouldn't we simply guide in the direction of reputable sources (clinics, books, and the like)?

If a teen is told the 'right' way to obtain and use drugs on this site (and/or encouraged), then comes to any harm, we are going to get very bad press. Personally, I think there are very few people here able to give the right advice on how to use drugs. Shouldn't we keep that aspect to a minimum?



My thoughts only. Take care,



Lena.

[Doug]

I've skimmed over this, and won't repeat what Four said. However, I want to point out 2 things:



1) Four is absolutely correct in everything he said. Nothing should be changed in the forum - it is doing a great job as it is. Audacity - that comment was completely uncalled for and (though I know that you won't) you should apologize to him for a disrespectful comment such as that.



2) There is a LOT of misinformation that is given in schools and by the government (some would call it propoganda). Most, if not all, of what I learned about marijuana in high school and on television I later found was dead wrong. Giving good information is vital to helping people develop who they are and what good and bad habits they will come up with. If we, as a community, were to spread this propoganda or not even talk about it (which would be much, much worse), we would be doing a disservice to everyone that visits.

[Emily]

Originally posted by Lena@Jun 21 2005, 02:14 PM

Would you tell people in the self harm forum the best way to cut deeper but safely? (Please answer honestly)



NOTHING that can potentially harm you is SAFE.



Why aid people to do dangerous things?

[right][/right]

Never.



But didn't you help someone to cover up cuts?

http://www.helpingteens.org/groups/inde ... opic=43919



To me that is the same thing as the drug issue at hand. You can't stop people from doing drugs if they have their heart set on it, but you can give them ways to be safe. You can't always stop a cutter, but you can help them afterwards with the decision they made.

[Lena]

Originally posted by Emily+Jun 22 2005, 08:59 AM--

[/right]

[/b]

Never.



But didn't you help someone to cover up cuts?

http://www.helpingteens.org/groups/inde ... opic=43919



To me that is the same thing as the drug issue at hand. You can't stop people from doing drugs if they have their heart set on it, but you can give them ways to be safe. You can't always stop a cutter, but you can help them afterwards with the decision they made.[right][/right]

[/b][/quote]



^ What you said there is correct. (They had already made the decision for themselves).



Take care,



Lena.

[skaterGuy15]

On a further note.. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking what weed is and how to smoke it. For a while I wanted to try it, but I didn't really want to ask my friends about it because 1) I don't have many friends who actually KNOW what they're talking and 2) I don't trust them to give me the right information.



It's my decision to try it, and I think it's good that I could've come to a supposedly non-judgemental place like this to ask my questions - without someone preaching to me about how bad it is for me.



We're not here to promote the use of it, but if people have made their choice I think we should respect it.